TIP: Click on subject to list as thread! ANSI
echo: osdebate
to: All
from: Rich
date: 2007-02-05 11:40:30
subject: Re: class attribute and standard HTML

From: "Rich" 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C7491A.704C3B90
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   Don't ask me but your definition of crap includes standard compliant. =
 It appears that you use the term "crap" for things you wish to whine =
about without regard to other factors like standards.

   MsoNormal is the name of the HTML/CSS class.  I'll refer you to the =
HTML and CSS standards for a description of how this works.  The name =
doesn't matter.  It could have been AdamIsAnIdiot and it would still be =
standards compliant.  Assuming the presence of a class when not declared =
is a violation of the standards.  Again, I'll refer you to the HTML and =
CSS standards for a description of how this works.

   I was describing Word 2003 though the same applies to Word 2007.  I =
give you the html element with the XML namespaces and you try to refute =
this by excerpting some other portion of a document.  Are you dim?  You =
fly totally off the handle with your comment

  HTML 4 stuff is simply using no=20
  namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely irrelevant =
&=20
  as usual a canard.

Look at the html element again and note that a default namespace is = provided.

Rich

  "Ad"  wrote in message =
news:45c6fec1{at}w3.nls.net...
  Rich wrote:
  >    Good that you now acknowledge that the HTML is standards =
compliant. =20

  Things can be standards compliant while still being crap & the Word =
HTML=20
  is crap.


  > I'm surprised you suggest non-compliance with a hack like "if no =
class=20
  > set assume MsoNormal upon rendering".  You're really being a =
hypocrite here.
  > =20

  Ummm no. What use is MsoNormal except to MS crap apps which expect it? =

  Nothing else needs or uses it.

  >    Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the =

  > HTML element
  > =20

  I'm not surprised you can't read because as usual you are purposefully =

  deficient in your understanding of the english language ie.

  "A) Which Word? We're mostly on 2003 with other versions dotted
        about. "

  Odd how you ignored that while wittering on about Word2k3

  >=20
  >          xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
  >     xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
  >=20
  > =20
  > I'm surprised you haven't seen this if you have actually done any =
work=20
  > on this content.  Maybe you are just lying.
  > =20

  Nope it's you who's lying through your teeth as per Rich SOP.

  e.g. a simple bit of text & a small table

  

  Some html from word

   

  Some more

   

  And now some bold 
and =
then=20
  some italic and then some=20
  underlined

   

   

  Now a table 

   

  
Tab1 Tab2 Tab1-2 Tab2-2 Look at that crap. (A) Check all the MsoNormal bollox everywhere. (B) Given that Word HTML can use classes etc to the degree that it=20 plasters msoNormal on just about anything then how come each s*dding = td=20 needs the same crappy styling info e.g. style=3D'width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid = windowtext 1.0pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm = 5.4pt=20 0cm 5.4pt' Why not then have a CSS section called "td.Mso" or whatever for table you have : table.MsoNormalTable which contains all the style info for a Word-ML = table but then to moment you get into something which will repeat i.e. = will take up far more text than table.......you fall back to slapping = in=20 tons of element specific styling which turns out not to be element=20 specific i.e. every td has the same styling info applied to it. i.e. there is no consistency or logic applied to the HTML, sometimes=20 it's class based css, other times it's direct inclusion of a style=20 attribute. There is no reason for this apart from a slipshod approach=20 probably tied to delivery dates & "it works so ship it" mentality. Also note how you comment wrt "Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the = HTML=20 element" is also total crap as all the HTML 4 stuff is simply using no = namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely irrelevant = &=20 as usual a canard. Adam ------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C7491A.704C3B90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't ask me but your = definition of=20 crap includes standard compliant. It appears that you use the term = "crap"=20 for things you wish to whine about without regard to other factors like=20 standards. MsoNormal is the name of = the HTML/CSS=20 class. I'll refer you to the HTML and CSS standards for a = description of=20 how this works. The name doesn't matter. It could have been=20 AdamIsAnIdiot and it would still be standards compliant. Assuming = the=20 presence of a class when not declared is a violation of the = standards. =20 Again, I'll refer you to the HTML and CSS standards for a description of = how=20 this works. I was describing Word 2003 = though the=20 same applies to Word 2007. I give you the html element with the = XML=20 namespaces and you try to refute this by excerpting some other portion = of a=20 document. Are you dim? You fly totally off the handle with = your=20 comment HTML 4 stuff is simply using no namespace/default = namespace i.e.=20 the comment is completely irrelevant & as usual a=20 canard. Look at the html element again and note = that a=20 default namespace is provided. Rich "Ad" <Dobbin{at}theStablesC=">mailto:Dobbin{at}theStablesCloseToTheAirport.com">Dobbin{at}theStablesC= loseToTheAirport.com>=20 wrote in message news:45c6fec1{at}w3.nls.net...Ri= ch=20 wrote:> Good that you now acknowledge that = the HTML=20 is standards compliant. Things can be standards = compliant while=20 still being crap & the Word HTML is crap.> I'm=20 surprised you suggest non-compliance with a hack like "if no class = >=20 set assume MsoNormal upon rendering". You're really being a = hypocrite=20 here.> Ummm no. What use is MsoNormal except to = MS crap=20 apps which expect it? Nothing else needs or uses=20 it.> Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you = should=20 have noticed from the > HTML element> I'm = not=20 surprised you can't read because as usual you are purposefully = deficient=20 in your understanding of the english language ie."A) Which = Word? We're=20 mostly on 2003 with other versions = dotted =20 about. "Odd how you ignored that while wittering on about=20 Word2k3> > <html=20 = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"> &n= bsp; =20 = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"> &nbs= p; =20 xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40<" target="new">http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40<=">http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40<= /A>">>=20 > > I'm surprised you haven't seen this if you = have=20 actually done any work > on this content. Maybe you are = just=20 lying.> Nope it's you who's lying through your = teeth as=20 per Rich SOP.e.g. a simple bit of text & a small=20 table<div class=3DSection1><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Some=20 html from word</p><p=20 = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>&= lt;p=20 class=3DMsoNormal>Some more</p><p=20 = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>&= lt;p=20 class=3DMsoNormal>And now some <span class=3DGramE><b=20 style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>bold = </b><span=20 style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>and</span> then = some=20 <istyle=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>italic</i> and = then some=20 <u>underlined</u></p><p=20 = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>&= lt;p=20 = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>&= lt;p=20 class=3DMsoNormal>Now a table </p><p=20 = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>&= lt;table=20 class=3DMsoTableGrid border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 = cellpadding=3D0 =20 style=3D'border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-border-alt:solid=20 windowtext .5pt; = mso-yfti-tbllook:480;mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt=20 0cm 5.4pt;mso-border-insideh: .5pt solid=20 windowtext;mso-border-insidev:.5pt solid windowtext'> = <tr=20 style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes'> = <td=20 width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid = windowtext=20 1.0pt; mso-border-alt:solid windowtext = .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt=20 0cm 5.4pt'> <p=20 class=3DMsoNormal>Tab1</p> = </td> =20 <td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid = windowtext=20 1.0pt; border-left:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid = windowtext=20 .5pt;mso-border-alt: solid windowtext = .5pt;padding:0cm=20 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'> <p=20 class=3DMsoNormal>Tab2</p> = </td> =20 </tr> <tr=20 style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'> = <td=20 width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid = windowtext=20 1.0pt; border-top:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid = windowtext=20 .5pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt; = padding:0cm=20 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'> <p=20 class=3DMsoNormal>Tab1-2</p> =20 </td> <td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop=20 = style=3D'width:213.05pt;border-top:none;border-left: = none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid = windowtext=20 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt:solid windowtext=20 .5pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid windowtext .5pt; =20 mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm=20 5.4pt'> <p=20 class=3DMsoNormal>Tab2-2</p> = </td> =20 </tr></table>Look at that crap.(A) = Check all=20 the MsoNormal bollox everywhere.(B) Given that Word HTML can use = classes=20 etc to the degree that it plasters msoNormal on just about = anything then=20 how come each s*dding td needs the same crappy styling info=20 e.g.style=3D'width=3D284 valign=3Dtop = style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20 windowtext 1.0pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm = 5.4pt=20 0cm 5.4pt'Why not then have a CSS section called "td.Mso" = or=20 whateverfor table you have : = table.MsoNormalTable which=20 contains all the style info for a Word-ML table but then to moment = you get=20 into something which will repeat i.e. will take up far more text = than=20 table.......you fall back to slapping in tons of element specific = styling=20 which turns out not to be element specific i.e. every td has the = same=20 styling info applied to it.i.e. there is no consistency or = logic=20 applied to the HTML, sometimes it's class based css, other times = it's=20 direct inclusion of a style attribute. There is no reason for this = apart=20 from a slipshod approach probably tied to delivery dates & "it = works=20 so ship it" mentality.Also note how you comment = wrt"Word=20 2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the HTML = element"=20 is also total crap as all the HTML 4 stuff is simply using no=20 namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely = irrelevant=20 & as usual a = canard.Adam ------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C7491A.704C3B90-- --- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)
SEEN-BY: 633/267 270
@PATH: 379/45 1 633/267

SOURCE: echomail via fidonet.ozzmosis.com

Email questions or comments to sysop@ipingthereforeiam.com
All parts of this website painstakingly hand-crafted in the U.S.A.!
IPTIA BBS/MUD/Terminal/Game Server List, © 2025 IPTIA Consulting™.