From: "Rich Gauszka" 

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The relevance of the quote was just to provide a bit of additional =
information for those looking at this thread and not wishing to take the =
time to go to the link ( most probably no one )=20

I'm still trying to figure out why we need another Flash look-a-like and =
the best rationale ( from a non-Microsoft sponsored site )  I could find =
was at the link below

http://richardleggett.co.uk/blog/index.php/2006/12/21/reflecting_on_wpfe
This is the real tough one. How can a product that is not even yet 1.0 =
compete with a product that has been around for 10 years - they'd have = to
prise Flash from the developers' cold dead hands on the most part. = This
is key when doing the inevitable and comparing it to Flash, just = what is
the hard sell that will make me use it over Flash right now - = maybe
nothing for a lot of people at least with v1. I do see a lot of = potential
in WPF/E, however, so I should explain this... When Nintendo = released the
DS and Wii, they had to compete in a world where = Playstation and XBox
owned all, they simply could not compete in = graphical prowess and
hardcore budgets, so they didn't, they found a new = market in terms of the
price point and concentrated on their strengths, = the Wii actually
re-inventing gaming. So with that analogy in mind, you = would be crazy to
battle against Flash in the short-term, you need = something more
tangible...=20

It is crystal clear that MS are targeting AJAX developers, giving them =
the tools they want without them having to learn ActionScript or Flash, =
they are also targeting to some extent two other groups. Designers are =
key, the Blend and Design tools are being made with these people in = mind,
I think this is a very tough market to grab, but competition (and = of
course integration) between the tools of the various proprietors is = to be
welcomed. The final market is quite obviously people who are = already
using Windows Media Video, particularly live streaming (i.e. the =
*other* end of the online video market). These people traditionally use =
an embedded Windows Media Player in the HTML page which is pretty awful. =
I heard someone say that if WPF/E means they can make a nice video = player
for their content, the rest is a bonus.

=20
  "Rich"  wrote in message news:45baeda8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
     WPF/E is a subset of WPF.  This is clear if you follow the links I =
provided.

     I don't see the relevance of your quote from the WPF/E mac =
download.

  Rich

    "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message =
news:45bae8eb{at}w3.nls.net...
    I just saw a Bill Gates Interview ( link below ) from Sept which =
seems to imply that Windows Presentation Foundation for Mac will be a =
subset of what runs under Vista. Am I in error in that assumption?  I've =
seen other comments ( expecially from Flash supporters ) that claim =
something similar.



    =
http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/PermaLink.aspx?guid=3Dbb51e92d-ed84-4f7=
8-ab48-7b69d4bce047
    BG: The Mac is one of the targets that we explicitly talked about, =
so yes. Now it's not 100 percent of XAML, we need to be clear on that. =
But the portion of XAML we've picked here will be everywhere. Absolutely =
everywhere. And it has to be. You've got to have, for at least reading, =
and even some level of animation, you've got to have pervasiveness. And =
will there be multiple things that fit into that niche? Probably. = Because
it's not that hard to carry multiple...you as a user don't even = know when
you're seeing something that's WPF/E versus Flash versus = whatever. It
just works.


    I've pasted a portion of your Microsoft XAML Mac link below.  =20

    ---------
    "WPF/E" (codename) is a browser enhancement module that enables =
browsers to render rich content in addition to HTML. 'WPF/E" is =
compatible with both the Safari browser and Firefox 1.5.0.8 on MacOSX =
10.4.8. The Dec 2006 CTP will expire on February 18, 2007 at which point =
when a web page that uses it is rendered, it will prompt the user to =
update to the latest version. "WPF/E" (codename) will
periodically ping = Microsoft.com to verify its integrity (at which point
the only = information that will be communicated will be your IP address
and the = module version).

      "Rich"  wrote in message news:45badd95$1{at}w3.nls.net...
         Obviously bogus claims like this don't help their clearly =
biased propaganda win over anyone that isn't already biased as they are. =
 Maybe these guys should have fact checked their propaganda to exclude =
all but their subjective claims that they could always spin as needed =
when questioned.

         FWIW, if you want to view XAML on the Macintosh, visit =
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=3D1665A00C-F7BB-=
459A-9DA2-F1DB6297277F&displaylang=3Den then http://www.msdn.com/wpfe =
for samples. =20

      Rich

        "Rich Gauszka"  wrote
in message =
news:45bab1c8$1{at}w3.nls.net...



        It said Microsoft's XAML markup language was "positioned to =
replace HTML",=20
        the industry standard for publishing documents on the Internet. =
XAML would=20
        be dependent on Windows, and discriminatory against systems such =
as Linux,=20
        the group said.

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The relevance of the quote was just to =
provide a=20
bit of additional information for those looking at this thread and = not=20
wishing to take the time to go to the link ( most probably no one=20
) 
 
I'm still trying to figure out why we =
need another=20
Flash look-a-like and the best rationale ( from a non-Microsoft = sponsored site )=20
 I could find was at the link below
 
http://richardleggett.co.uk/blog/index.php/2006/12/21/reflecting_=
on_wpfe">http://richardleggett.co.uk/blog/index.php/2006/12/21/reflecting=
_on_wpfe

This is the real tough one. How can a product that is not even yet =
1.0=20
compete with a product that has been around for 10 years - they'd have = to prise=20
Flash from the developers' cold dead hands on the most part. This is key = when=20
doing the inevitable and comparing it to Flash, just what is the hard = sell that=20
will make me use it over Flash right now - maybe nothing for a lot of = people at=20
least with v1. I do see a lot of potential in WPF/E, however, so I = should=20
explain this... When Nintendo released the DS and Wii, they had to = compete in a=20
world where Playstation and XBox owned all, they simply could not = compete in=20
graphical prowess and hardcore budgets, so they didn't, they found a new = market=20
in terms of the price point and concentrated on their strengths, the Wii =

actually re-inventing gaming. So with that analogy in mind, you would be = crazy=20
to battle against Flash in the short-term, you need something more = tangible...=20

It is crystal clear that MS are targeting AJAX developers, giving =
them the=20
tools they want without them having to learn ActionScript or Flash, they = are=20
also targeting to some extent two other groups. Designers are key, the = Blend and=20
Design tools are being made with these people in mind, I think this is a = very=20
tough market to grab, but competition (and of course integration) = between the=20
tools of the various proprietors is to be welcomed. The final market is = quite=20
obviously people who are already using Windows Media Video, particularly = live=20
streaming (i.e. the *other* end of the online video market). These = people=20
traditionally use an embedded Windows Media Player in the HTML page = which is=20
pretty awful. I heard someone say that if WPF/E means they can make a = nice video=20
player for their content, the rest is a bonus. 

  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:45baeda8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
     WPF/E
is a subset of =
WPF.  This=20
  is clear if you follow the links I provided.
   
     I don't see the =
relevance of your=20
  quote from the WPF/E mac download.
   
  Rich
   
  

    "Rich Gauszka" <gauszka{at}dontspamhotmail.commailto:gauszka{at}dontspamhotmail.com">gauszka{at}dontspamhotmail.com
A>>=20
    wrote in message news:45bae8eb{at}w3.nls.net...
    I just saw a Bill Gates
Interview ( =
link below=20
    ) from Sept which seems to imply that Windows Presentation =
Foundation for=20
    Mac will be a subset of what runs under Vista. Am I in error=20
    in that assumption?  I've seen other comments ( expecially =
from=20
    Flash supporters ) that claim something similar.
     
     
     
    http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/PermaLink.aspx?guid=3Dbb51e92d-=
ed84-4f78-ab48-7b69d4bce047">http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/PermaLink.=
aspx?guid=3Dbb51e92d-ed84-4f78-ab48-7b69d4bce047
    BG: The Mac is one of the
targets that we =
explicitly=20
    talked about, so yes. Now it's not 100 percent of XAML, we need to =
be clear=20
    on that. But the portion of XAML we've picked here will be =
everywhere.=20
    Absolutely everywhere. And it has to be. You've got to have, for at =
least=20
    reading, and even some level of animation, you've got to have =
pervasiveness.=20
    And will there be multiple things that fit into that niche? =
Probably.=20
    Because it's not that hard to carry multiple...you as a user don't =
even know=20
    when you're seeing something that's WPF/E versus Flash versus whatever. It just =
works.
     
     
    I've pasted a portion of your =
Microsoft XAML=20
    Mac link below.   
     
    ---------
    
    =93WPF/E=94 (codename) is=20
    a browser enhancement module that enables browsers to render rich =
content in=20
    addition to HTML. =91WPF/E=94 is compatible with both the Safari =
browser and=20
    Firefox 1.5.0.8 on MacOSX 10.4.8. The Dec 2006 CTP will expire on =
February=20
    18, 2007 at which point when a web page that uses it is rendered, it =
will=20
    prompt the user to update to the latest version. =93WPF/E=94 =
(codename) will=20
    periodically ping Microsoft.com to verify its integrity (at which =
point the=20
    only information that will be communicated will be your IP address =
and the=20
    module version).
    
 
    

      "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:45badd95$1{at}w3.nls.net...
        
Obviously bogus =
claims like this=20
      don't help their clearly biased propaganda win over anyone that =
isn't=20
      already biased as they are.  Maybe these guys should have =
fact=20
      checked their propaganda to exclude all but their subjective =
claims that=20
      they could always spin as needed when questioned.
       
        
FWIW, if you want to =
view XAML=20
      on the Macintosh, visit http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=3D1665A0=
0C-F7BB-459A-9DA2-F1DB6297277F&displaylang=3Den">http://www.microsoft=
.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=3D1665A00C-F7BB-459A-9DA2-F1DB629727=
7F&displaylang=3Den then=20
      http://www.msdn.com/wpfe for=20" target="new">http://www.msdn.com/wpfe">http://www.msdn.com/wpfe">http://www.msdn.com/wpfe for=20
      samples.  
       
      Rich
       
      
        "Rich Gauszka" <gauszka{at}dontspamhotmail.commailto:gauszka{at}dontspamhotmail.com">gauszka{at}dontspamhotmail.com
A>>=20
        wrote in message news:45bab1c8$1{at}w3.nls.net...It=20
        said Microsoft's XAML markup language was "positioned to replace =
HTML",=20
        the industry standard for publishing documents on the =
Internet. XAML=20
        would be dependent on Windows, and discriminatory against =
systems=20
        such as Linux, the group=20
said.

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