Hyerdahl wrote:
> Mark Sobolewski wrote:

> > I think women increasingly are working more and more as
> > social safety nets crash down in the United States
> > and even in Europe.
>
> I think all people are working more and more during reigns of terror
> designed to oppress the poor and mid-class make the rich richer.

As Barry Goldwater put it: The same government that
can give you everything you want is the same one
that can take it all away.

This is a wonderful example of my point that for every
single goodie the gimmie-gals got, they usually had
to make a hidden concession elsewhere.  In a way,
that's equality don't you think? :-)

> > For every handout that most women have gotten due to feminism,
> > there's usually been another hand taking something away:
> > Women got higher pay in the workplace and in exchange, often
> > wound up having to wait years (during their prime childbirth
> > years) to compete for professional men to marry.
>
> I don't see women as being very competetive, Mark; they seem to
prefer
> cooperative techniques,

Yeah, provided it doesn't COST anything. :-)  Hey, I can
cooperate nicely too when it's no skin off my fannie.

> and where men are unavailable (altho they don't
> seem to be since women are not going to Russia to buy husbands)

Naw, they hang out at rallies in DC bemoaning the lack
of German style government in the US. :-)

> women
> seem to cooperate with other women.  In fact, some women enjoy being
> roomates.  :-)

Hey, I had two women roommates and it seemed that they were always
going at each other.  Meow, baby!

> > Women got special political victim status, but to achieve it,
> > racial minorities were needed to build a coalition resulting
> > in racial violence in the states that women are > always in fear of
> (check out most inner city office complexes in the US and see how
many
> women walk around past dusk...)
> >
> It is well known and historically acknowledged that women face
rampant
> invideous discrimination,

Yes, it's clear from all the preferences women have in education
resulting in their higher enrollment rates than men and
all the money they get in family court and lower sentencing
in criminal court how invideous this discrimination is... :-)

Seriously, it's amazing considering all the hand-holding women
get that they still are struggling.  Sheesh, it's not just
sufficient to build you gals a handicapped ramp to
"level the playing field" but we have to attach a motor
to the wheelchair too!

> but racial violence effects men more than
> women.  More men are injured or killed in racial violence.

Agreed.  But women feel a stronger emotional impact in the
situation.  I've ridden on trains through center city LA where
I felt uncomfortable but most normal middle class women couldn't
stand or handle for an extended period of time.

One reason why many women suffer lower violence rates than
men is because they clear the streets.  If men were housewives
and men were out working, I imagine the rates of violence
against women in this situation would skyrocket.

> So, I'm not
> sure why Mark wants to say that women have been victimized by their
own
> feminism?
>
> >> Family court bashing men?  Other hand: welfare state
> > robbing working women to pay for unwed mothers.
>
> We all pay taxes, Mark.

Indeed!  Only the hardcore feminists cheered on single welfare
mothers while most normal working heterosexual women broke ranks.

> Suggesting that women are paying more taxes
> doesn't work for me.  :-)

Non-sequitur.  I said that women were paying more taxes
because of feminism OVERALL just as men do.  Nowhere
in that particular statement is it implied that men
paid less taxes.

Are you taking lessons from Michael Moore? :-)

> And, that's what you really have to do to
> make it seem that women are suffering because of feminism.

Here's the thing: Despite all the so-called "equality"
and continued chivalrous handouts such as alimony,
you still have to make women out as being oppressed
by some boogyman Patriarch somewhere in their hidden
fortress.

Question: When will women ever stop being oppressed?
How can you gals ever throw off the yoke of male oppression
when you so clearly need them to blame all of women's
failures on?

> We don't
> need to force abused women to stay with abusers just to satisfy your
> misogynistic NEEDS.

As many women are discovering, being a single spinster
woman or winding up working long hours as a corporate
droid to be a single mother isn't a walk in a rose
garden either.

The so-called abuser at least paid the bills and didn't leave
the poor woman to yearn for Germanic liberators. :-)

> > Men built stuff.  You gals just squandered any power you had.
>
> Tell that to the huge number of young women who are now attending
> college.  :-)

That's just it: ATTENDING college alone doesn't accomplish squat.
Zilch.  Nada.  Graduating doesn't accomplish anything either.
Ultimately, the young women's personal lives include
their family, a healthy work environment they find fulfilling,
and a cost of living that's affordable for them.

The urban sprawl and highly competitive environment that
feminism has thrust such women into is in all ways
less fulfilling for most women's overall goals.

regards,
Mark Sobolewski



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