Replying to a message of DAVE DRUM to BOB ACKLEY:

 DD> -=> Bob Ackley wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

 DD>> How about understanding that a "corporate person" is a
 DD>> legal fiction limiting liability of the actual persons
 DD>> involved in that corporation. That however is not
 DD>> guaranteed ... as has been learned by several "robber
 DD>> barons" who went bust or ripped off their patrons.

 BA>> It's not a legal fiction, a corporation is in fact an
 BA>> 'artificial person' in law.  And it is possible to pierce
 BA>> that corporate veil to identify and if need be get at the
 BA>> owners.

 DD> An "artificial person" is not a real person any more than a
 DD> robot is a person no matter what some may read into the
 DD> "law". Therefore it is a fiction that an artificial person
 DD> is a real person - a legal fiction. 

 DD>> A corporate person is not the same as a human person as
 DD>> addressed in "We the People of the United States, in Order
 DD>> to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure
 DD>> domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,
 DD>> promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of
 DD>> Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and
 DD>> establish this Constitution for the United States of
 DD>> America."

 BA>> Actually, companies as such existed before the US was
 BA>> founded.

 DD> Well, of course they did. The East India Company, for
 DD> example. But, that has nothing to do with them not being
 DD> the same as an honest to actual humern bean. 

 BA>> Two things in particular differentiate the corporate
 BA>> 'person' from a human; one is that the corporate person
 BA>> cannot vote, another is that the corporate person can
 BA>> exist forever ("in perpetuity" is the usual terminology).

 DD> True enough ...  

 DD>> And thus should not be guaranteed the protections granted
 DD>> to individual human citizens ... especially since a
 DD>> corporation cannot be a citizen, is not eligible to vote
 DD>> (altho with the recent mis-guided decision of the supremes
 DD>> it may be able to buy votes), and cannot be elected to
 DD>> office.

 BA>> Non corporate entities also buy politicians. The decision
 BA>> you disagree with merely levels the field. Since all
 BA>> politicians in this country are bought and paid for, I'd
 BA>> just like to know just who owns which politicians.

 DD> And what difference will that make? None that I can see.

 DD> What we need to do is limit all political offices to two
 DD> terms - then the office holder has to go back and live
 DD> under the laws that s/he enacted. No cushy pensions, no
 DD> extended health care, no lifetime sinecures. Make political
 DD> office a duty, not a lifetime career.

Congresscrooks - and their staffs - should be paid by their respective
states, not by the national government.  The states should also be
required to purchase property within the corporate limits of Washington,
DC, and establish embassies to provide housing and office space for their
congresscrooks and their staffs.

I've also come to somewhat favor summary execution of elected officials
at the end of one term.  To discourage recidivism - and improve the gene
pool and the ethical levels in this country.

I also favor abolishing elections and selecting people at random to serve in
what had been elected offices, sort of like jury duty.  One year terms, refusal
to serve gets the individual that same year in prison; diddling the selection 
process gets the perp(s) ten years in prison.  After all, they cannot possibly
be worse overall than the people we elect.  It also might encourage kids to
pay a bit more attention to civics in school.

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