MM> SK> There are certain students who do not do well in the ed system
MM> SK> as it is designed. I think that what this then calls for, is a
MM> SK> reform for these students so that they can learn better.
MM>Reform?  I think what is boils down to is, why do you believe in
MM>compulsory education and forcing your (or other people's) ideas in
MM>reforming someone?
If an individual were going to live on a desert island by themself, or
on top of a mountain as a hermit, then I would agree with you that that
individual should have complete and total freedom to decide what and how
they want to live. But, we live in a society with others, and what we
decide to do can affect others. Each individual does have some
responsibilities to the others in society with which he lives. I do not
wish to debate that with you, and if you try I will simply not respond.
That is a tenet for me, that you cannot change. No man is an island.
All of society, including the individual himself, benefits from the
education of the individual. This is why I feel comfortable with
compulsory education.
As far as "forcing ideas on someone"...I don't believe that that is what
an education should do.
MM>You will still have protection from  quacks without any certification
MM>system.  I explained how this happens.  Word-of-mouth, direct observation
MM>of how someone's performance, selection of the fittest.
Sorry. I prefer to have a certifying board in place.
MM> SK> I don't want to
MM> SK> take a family member of mine to a physician and find out after my
MM> SK> child or husband is dead or permanently disfigured that I should've
MM> SK> picked a different doctor.
MM>You take that chance now.
True to some extent, but I believe it would be worse without the
certifications.
MM>What really is the difference between dropping out and ending your 
education
MM>with a high school diploma?  Is it that much of a difference?
It depends on the individual in question and the school, I would
suppose.
MM>yes, we're all doing our best, but it's within a system which is
MM>very poorly designed for learning.  That's why there's all these
MM>problems, why teachers are underpaid, overworked, and constantly battling
MM>something, maybe they don't even know what.   It's why we're always
MM>made to believe there's some challenge or deficiency in the educational
MM>process which has to be overcome.  Why should there always be some
MM>thing wrong like that?  I don't think it's natural or necessary.  With
MM>every hump that's conquered, there's another one looming.  It doesn't have
MM>to be that way.
What you write here is very seductive. It is appealing to believe that
there is so much frustration simply because we are trying to combat some
unsolvable problem, or are approaching the solution completely
backwards. I suspect there is even some truth to it. However, to say it
is completely unnatural to have problems seems wrong to me. Problems are
inherent in human relationships, and this includes schooling. I know, I
know. You're going to tell me we should scrap the schools, and that
would solve the problem. It would solve the problems in the schools
since they wouldn't exist, but as I've written before, it would create
new problems which I believe would be far worse.
MM> SK> Because, of all the people I know, a great deal of what they know 
hey
MM> SK> learned in a school.
MM>Really?  Could you quantify that?  I'd like to hear what you consider
MM>their personal store of knowledge and why it comes from school, please.
I probably can't quantify that. In a human lifetime people learn MANY
things. Some of them, as you have pointed out, such as language,
hygiene, social graces, etc... are learned outside school. Some is
learned in school. People learn a LOT over their lifetime. Given that,
I'd say that if 10% of their total knowledge is learned in school, that
Sheila
 * SLMR 2.1a *
--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
---------------