RS> Yes, but as you validly pointed out, the number of keystrokes
RS> can be more than is desirable. The answer is to add a decent
RS> keyboard oriented task switcher to the OS to allow you to go
RS> to the task you want in one keystroke.

BG> That wasn't at all clear to me from your earlier messages on this subject,
BG> but now that I know what you meant, I thoroughly agree. However, I'm
BG> not currently aware of any easy way to accomplish this in OS/2 itself.

RS> Sure, you really need to use a decent addon to do that.

BG> I suspect that if I could get a handle on Rexx programming, it
BG> may well be possible to trap certain key combinations in the WPS.

Yes, its doable. The main advantage in going the other
route, using one of the available shareware utes that
does that, is that its just a drop it in and use it thing.

BG> In fact, the Watchcat archive even supplies a user-alterable DLL
BG> for this very purpose, but that's too high level for me, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I doubt the effort is worth it. Particularly as the key
combinations you are likely to find useful for OS level task
switching happen to be a bit more tricky to use.

I think you really need a bit more than the minimum too, not just
define a few key combinations to go to particular OS level tasks,
but also a decent way to define those on the fly and stuff. Once you
want that extra user interface stuff, its not a trivial job at all,
even if you are fully fluent with whatever tools you choose to use.

RS> Sure, but thats STILL the wrong way to use say List in that app.

BG> Rubbish.

RS> Fraid not. Its certainly possible to do it that route,
RS> but its MUCH worse than doing it with a decent keyboard
RS> oriented OS level task switcher, worse in quite a few ways.

BG> A bit later you point out one particular area where it
BG> may well be more desirable to task switch via individual
BG> hot-keys, but for the most part, it ain't necessary.

Thats crap Bill. The short story is that an external has NO
advantages at all, its slower to invoke in the sense of the OS
actually getting that task up, you cant toggle back and forth
between the primary task and the external with anything like the
ease you can will full OS level tasks and you lose your context in
the external task. The external route has not one since advantage.

You cant even really say that the external is there in Msged
and you have to install the keyboard oriented task switcher in
the OS coz you really ought to have a decent keyboard oriented
task switcher in the OS for other task switching anyway.

Externals are dinosaur technology which are useful in single tasking
systems, but are LONG past their useby date when you are using
anything at all in multitasking or task switching except DOSSHELL.

BG> However, Msged itself can actually have hot-keys
BG> programmed which will do almost the same thing.

Nope, you are utterly missing the point, focussing on the definition
of the keys and ignoring the work done when you have PRESSED whatever
key combination you have chosen to define for that invocation of say List.

BG> I now have Msged set up to shell to List with a single keystroke,
BG> and if I need to Edit, Move, Copy, or otherwise act upon a specific
BG> file, that is also performed via a single keystroke in List itself,
BG> then eXiting takes me right back to where I started.

RS> Yes, there is no argument with the keystrokes required. *BUT*
RS> that approach has a number of other disadvantages. It takes
RS> time to invoke the external as it has to start that task.

BG> The load time is immeasurable Rod.  0.5 of a second maximum to load
BG> List, or to shell out to the external Qedit.  Virtually instantaneous.

Because you have farted around with caches and ram disks to
get that. Its fucking dinosaur technology Bill. And has done
nothing about the other deficiencys of an external anyway.

RS> Sure you can fart around with caches and ramdisks to minimise that time,

BG> No need.  How can you improve upon 0.5 of a second?  And why bother?

Thats because you have ALREADY farted around with the cache Bill.

RS> but its FAR better speed wise to have that List task just
RS> loaded already, ready for a very quick keyboard oriented
RS> task switch at the OS level.

BG> Nope, the time is the same, be it a Msged hot-key, or a task-switch.

Bullshit, the task switch is instant. AND you havent counted what
you are going to do in List etc either. The fact that List stays
up in the separate task means that on many occasions you save that
stuff in List too with a decent OS task switch. You cant with an
external coz by definition that task is shut down when you exit it.

RS> The other problem with an external is that the original task
RS> isnt available except by a full return from the external.

BG> Yep, and AFA I'm concerned, that's the ONLY advantage
BG> (if it can be called that),

Thats just because you are living in the past Bill, doing the usual
thing, continuing to do things the dinosaur way, long after that dinosaur
way makes any sense at all as you move from a single tasking system.

BG> but I have NEVER had occasion to run
BG> more than one copy of Msged here. Not once.

I'm not talking about fucking copys of Msged. I am talking about
Msged and List. If you are reading a message with Msged and you
decide to look something up with List, and you then decide you need
to look at that message again, with a decent OS level task switch
thats again an instant switch to the Msged again. And back to List,
as often as you like, instant every time, no context lost in List.

You cant do that with an external invocation of List.

BG> If I need to C&P, I can use either the OS/2 clipboard,
BG> or Msged's own internal routines.  No big deal at all.

I'm not fucking talking about cut and paste at all Bill.

BG> Later...  It just occurred to me that another Msged
BG> session can be started via a hotkey as well if
BG> necessary (which IMO it's not), so eat shit Rod.  |-)

Utterly irrelevant.

RS> With the decent task switch, you can switch back and forward between
RS> the two at will, as often as you like, instantly once you have pressed
RS> the keys. Say you jump out of the message to look something up with
RS> List, need a bit more info from the original message, you have to fart
RS> around, exit the external invocation of List, back in the message,
RS> reread the message, reload List wait for that, and you've lost your
RS> place in the file you were looking at with List too.

BG> Not really,

Yes really.


(Continued to next message)

--- PQWK202