-=> Quoting John Allen to Steve Mccoin <=-
 JA>         I too am building up my war chest for new amps. I am torn
        Do you mind if I ask why you thought you needed to "upgrade"
amps?  Were you having trouble driving your speakers?  Was there some
offensive sound that you were sure the Carvers were causing and that
you compared directly on your rig?  Or was it an urge to just upgrade
in general and thinking those reasonably priced (and therfore merely
"adequate" or even mid-fi by Stereophile Standards for spending money
on a system) Carver amps were a good place to start?
 JA> between the Legacy and Sumo. I would like someday to get up into
 JA> the Sonic Frontiers, Bryston or Conrad Johnson areas, but that is
 JA> still far too expensive. But from the two people I have spoken to
        Why exactly?  Is it the prestige of owning a REALLY expensive
amplifier?  Is it because Stereophile or some other magazine says so?
Or have you actually compared these amps in a home trial already and
found them to actually sound superior to your current amps?  If so,
was it a blind test?  A wise man once said, "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it."
        There's some interesting discussion going on RAHE about ABX
testing and double blind testing and bias in general.  One of the
major points of bias is, of course, price.  Several engineers on there
have already shown how several kilobuck CD players and DACs are
INFERIOR to $200 mass market models, not because of parts quality, but
poor engineering and basic lack of experience in digital electronics.
Money is no guarantee of quality these days, but as always, the normal
human bias of "more money almost always buys better quality" still
holds true (the bias, not the belief).
 JA>         Several months ago I had the chance to listen to a system
 JA> being pushed by a Sumo Andramada(sp?). Wow!!! Power and Reserve
 JA> galore, yet a sweet sound that left a great impression. None of
        Again, how can you be sure it wasn't the SYSTEM (including the
room it was playing in), and not just the amplifier?  Or was this Sumo
in your system when you auditioned it?  I always say it's absolutely
worthless to shop for a preamp or amplifier based on listening in a
show room or even someone's else's home.  There's simply NO way to
separate the "sound" of the amp or preamp or cd player from that of
the rest of the system.  This method is barely adequate for speakers
given how different they can sound in different rooms, let alone
something as subtle as a solid state amplifier.  Until you've compared
an amp in your own system, there's simply no adequate way to judge,
IMO.
 JA> the brassie over shaprness of many of the solid states. Just a 
        Has this been in your actual experience or is this given as a
general sort of "fact" spread by magazines such as Stereophile?  (I
hate to question all your motives, John, but this really is starting
to sound more and more like Stereophile talking and you seemed so much
more sensible about this sort of thing even as short as a year ago.
I've noticed a very marked change in your opinions of this sort of
equipment since then.  I'm curious if magazines like Stereophile have
had this effect over long periods of time.  I know I felt more than a
couple of urges to go out and buy expensive stuff before just because
they made it sound like it was something a person shouldn't live
without.  Personally, I'm glad I got rid of my subscription.  RAHE is
much more informative and provides a much more balanced viewpoint.
 JA> And, I have all the confidence in the world in Bill Duddleston.
 JA> If he  builds it, I'll more than likely buy it. I guess that is
        This is the primary sentence that made me respond in the first
place.  Personally, I place my faith in a given product once I've
heard it a few times.  A person may have a LOT of experience and know
how to build a very good sounding speaker.  This in no way indicates
that person will be successful at building amplifiers, DACs, etc.
Some are, but I sure as heck wouldn't buy anything Bob Carver puts out
just because I think he's one of the more competant engineers out
there today.  I heard his Sunfire Subwoofer and while VERY impressive
for its size, it didn't sound any better than my current sub, at least
at the showroom.  I've decided therefore, to keep my current sub and
save myself a hassle, at least until such time someone can prove it's
better to me.  As persuasive as a self proclaimed "exptert" as Mr.
Duddleston may be, he is still praising his own products, which is to
be expected.  I'm not saying his products aren't good (I have yet to
hear one), but Legacy isn't the only good brand on earth, or the only
one worth considering.
 JA>         As far as bi-wiring goes, you will hear a lot of people
 JA> who will argue that given sufficient wiring from the amp to the
 JA> speakers, bi-wiring will accomplish nothing. I have experimented
        It will accomplish something.  It will reduce the resistance
of a single wire of the same size by 2.  Electrically, with the same
outputs on the amp and the same brand cable, there is no difference
between using two medium gages bi-wired or one low gage single wired.
What difference could there possibly be in the same brand and strain
of wire?  Wire is still wire whether there are two smaller conductor
paths or one thicker one.
 JA> with it. With my standard original issue Monster speaker cable
 JA> I could hear no significant difference. But when I moved up to 
 JA> better wires, there was indeed a difference well worth the price
        Better wires?  Better in what way?  Double blind tests have
yet to show an audible difference between plain ZIP Cord and some of
the most expensive wire out there that measure the same.  Those cables
that have high capacitance or inductance may very well sound
different, but that's because they're COLORING the sound.  You may
find that to sound better, but it's not likely to be more accurate.
 JA> for me. I later went to bi-amping as I had an extra amp just 
 JA> sitting in the rack. That too made a difference but was difficult
        Bi-amping may help with a given load.
 JA> for me to get balanced out as the matching amps (Carver TFM 35s)
 JA> had two channel gain controls on each amp. I decided I would be
        Ever try an ac volt meter on the outputs to match the levels?
It works pretty well for me in the lab.
 JA> better off with one better quality amp and bi-wiring.
        Unless you plan to replace internal crossovers with active
ones, one larger amp is probably better than two smaller ones in
general, as to keep more consistancy.  Full active drive is often
worth the extra amp, however.  Bi-wiring is irrelevant.
 JA> once.         I am very impressed with the Tara Labs Prime 1000
 JA> RSC cables. The head of Tara is a bit excentric and comes across
        I believe Tara Labs has a reputation for high capacitance
cable, so that may explain the difference you're hearing.  Do you
perceive the treble as smoother and less glaring?  If so, that's
probably the reason.  High cap. cables roll off the highs.  This can
help with overly bright speakers, but it's really an equalizer or tone
control in disguise.
 JA> RSC technology. They are a bit more than Monster Cable or Zip
 JA> cord, but I figured if I could spend a bazillion dollars on the
 JA> rest of the system I should pop for a couple hundred for single
 JA> cable bi-wire. They sound great! And, I am not one for tweaks and
        Why would you figure that?  If something works perfectly, why
replace it with something more expensive that does the same thing?
 JA> out the fellow from Purist Audio Designs (PAD) who fills some of
 JA> his cables with water,  and pumps light through others and
 JA> charges several thousand dollars to do so. I guess someone is
 JA> buying them or he wouldn't still be advertising all over the
        Yes, I'm sure someone is.  Someone is also getting ripped off.
Light is at such a higher frequency than audible sound as to make no
difference what-so-ever (we're talking multiple orders of magnitude!).
It also will provide no shielding as such.  Let's face it, there's a
sucker born every day.  Because something sells and because someone
believes it's making a difference somehow, is NO indication of actual
performance.  It's how snake-oil salesmen sell their "medicine." It's
called the placebo effect.
 * AmyBW v2.14 *
... "The answer to the Great Question is 42."
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