On 01-01-98 Dennis Menard wrote to Day Brown... 
 
 DM>  -[ Quoting Day Brown , to Dennis Menard ]- 
 DM>  
 DM>  DB> Only a fool would assume that any, or even many of the, black 
 DM>  DB> men he meets is, or would be, a murderer. 
 DM>  
 DM> Agreed. 
 DM>  
 DM>  DB> Yet the facts are that blacks murder blacks more than whites do 
 DM>  DB> whites, asians do asians, amerinds do amerinds, or even hispanic 
 DM>  DB> do hispanics.  Apparently, a death sentance is less of a lesson 
 DM>  DB> to members of their culture. 
 DM>  
 DM> Perhaps.  But, do we have all the facts?  Have the studies been done, 
 DM> and 
 DM> the results been made available, to the public, which illustrate the 
 DM> inevit- 
 DM> ability of this conclusion?  And do we really want to "solve" the 
 DM> problem or 
 DM> simply appear to solve it, by eliminating it by the most expedient 
 DM> method 
 DM> available?  Can we consider avoiding a "solution" to be justice?  
 DM> Statistics 
 DM> can be creatively manipulated to show what the compiler wishes them to 
 DM> show; 
 DM> how can we be sure that statistical facts really  the "facts"? 
Well for one, the *exact* same sort of statistics've been compiled 
in Germany and Sweden with Gypsies and Lapps, who're just as white 
as I am, but, like our Blacks, have different cultural values than 
those of the larger 'white' community. 
 
Is it 'justice' to try to get their men to treat their women with 
the same degree of respect that WASPs do with theirs?  Or, do they 
have a right to their cultural traditions of machismo, which are 
at the heart of the high rates of assault for which we jail them? 
 
No matter what the state does, there is unintended consequences; I 
don't ever expect to see 'justice' from a governmental structure 
so permeated with lawyers.  We have been paying them all 50$/hour 
forever, and I don't see that they have created much justice.  
 
 DM> Florida's homicide rates in 1976, 1977, and 1978 were the lowest on 
 DM> record 
 DM> in the state.  Florida resumed executions in 1979 after nearly 15 
 DM> years 
 DM> without executions. The state's murder rates in 1980, 1981 and 1982 
 DM> were the 
 DM> highest in recent history, increasing 28% in 1980. 
 DM>  
 DM> Georgia, resuming executions in 1983, experienced a 20% increase in 
 DM> the 
 DM> homicide rate in 1984, a year in which the national homicide rate fell 
 DM> 5%.
Are not their prisons stuffed to the gills? Seems to me like the 
states started locking them up longer for less serious assaults 
and the drug dealing that releases the passions that cause them. 
The public may have been thinking of justice in longer prison for 
social predators, but it has reduced the murder rate. 
 
I am not arguing that execution reduced the murder rate among the 
general public in any detectable fashion. I say that it reduced 
the rate of *murder among the prison population*, which has had a 
salutatory effect on the death rate for guards.  
 
 DM> ----- 
 DM>  
 DM>  DB> I hear black leaders complain of the longer sentances for crack 
 DM>  DB> dealers in the hood than the coke dealers in the burbs, but I 
 DM>  DB> havta wonder, does that mean these leaders want these parasites 
 DM>  DB> to practice more in their community? I mean what else are these 
 DM>  DB> dealers going to do if we let them out?  Helloooo.....? 
 DM>  
 DM> "Why" did they become dealers in the first place?  What was the 
 DM> incentive 
 DM> for them to become dealers?  If the only solution is to incarcerate a 
 DM> person 
 DM> forever ... or execute him ... IS that really a "solution" or just a 
 DM> case of 
 DM> sweeping the problem under the rug so we don't have to see it?  
 DM> Seriously? 
 DM>  
 DM>  DB> If we wanted to damage the white community, would we not set all 
 DM>  DB> the white coke dealers free?  If you care about a community, do 
 DM>  DB> you not want to remove all the social predators?  Or do you want 
 DM>  DB> some sort of quota system, where you only lock up 40% of them so 
 DM>  DB> that the prison population is more representative of the racial 
 DM>  DB> mix of society at large? affirmative action prison?  scuze me? 
 DM>  
 DM> Check out, for example, Albert F. Sabo's judicial record in 
 DM> Philadelphia, 
 DM> and then tell me that, potential white and black criminals are pursued 
 DM> with 
 DM> equal zeal.  If we look for criminal activities, we "will" find them.  
 DM> And, 
 DM> if we look for them more over HERE than over THERE, rest assured that 
 DM> we'll 
 DM> find more OF them over HERE.  I don't disagree with you on this, Day; 
 DM> but 
 DM> this is an important point, as well. 
 The black may well face more severe sentences.  But in as much as 
they cause greater damage to their community, I think that this is 
appropriate.  The white criminal preys on a richer community that 
can more easily afford it without fraying the social fabric. 
 
 DM>  DB> I spoze there might be another effective way to control crime, 
 DM>  DB> but I have not seen any program that we could afford that was 
 DM>  DB> also effective.  Have you seen anything else? 
 DM>  
 DM> I have only one question to this: Is "justice" measurable by cost?  
 DM> If it 
 DM> is, then it's affordable only by those who can afford to pay for it; 
 DM> is that what we call "justice"? 
Cost to who? the accused? or the victim?  My justice measurement 
is the only number I can count: the number of victims.  If policy 
decreases that number, then it's as much justice as I can expect. 
Calculated in that number of *victims* are those who falsely are 
convicted by the state.  If I have to kill one of them to prevent 
a hundred guards and non-violent prisoners from being killed, who 
is to say that it is not worth it? 
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