Deborah Terreson wrote:
> In article  ,
"Ben"
>  wrote:
>
> > (snip the original article)
> >
> >
> > categories we're not even in the Top 10
> >> >> >>> anymore. Not even close.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> The USA is "No. 1" in nothing
but weaponry, consumer
spending,
> >> > debt,
> >> >> >>> and delusion.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Reprinted from the Austin Chronicle.
> >> >> >>>
www.citypages.com/databank/26/1264/article12985.asp
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Most of the statistic's above courtesy of that bastion of
truth,
> >> > The
> >> >> > New York Times.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'd imagine that the Austin, TEXAS paper probably checked the
> > stats -
> >> > given
> >> >> the Times track record in accuracy.
> >> >
> >> > They might have, but I wouldn't rely on it.  Newspapers are
> > notorious
> >> > for simply taking and running with what another paper prints.
The
> > NYT,
> >> > for all its flaws, is still identified as the newspaper of
record
> > in
> >> > the industry.
> >>
> >> Hmm. I really wish I could gind that NH Gazette item about the
Times
> > and
> >> their ability to speak truthfully..
> >
> > Oh, I don't doubt you about the NH Gazette, I'm just wondering if
the
> > Texas newspaper did more than cut and paste from NYT.
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Oh yeahhhhh...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>It's gonna be fun watching the FoxNews
weenies squeal like
pigs
> > in
> >> > a poke
> >> >> >>when the shit hits it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Turn that tube off, once in awhile, Deb.  
Recently, you've
> > posted
> >> >> > comments on a list of sit-coms, including 'Sex
and The City',
> > and
> >> >> > reality shows e.g., 'queer eye for the straight
guy' etc.,
and
> > yet
> >> >> > watch those and many other programs.  Aren't
you the one who
> > says
> >> > she
> >> >> > doesn't watch Television?  Then, how can you
review FoxNews?
> > Or,
> >> > is
> >> >> > it just that CNN is simply more suited to your ideology?
> >> >>
> >> >> Ermm. Nope. I like the Wall STreet Journal, The Atlantic and
the
> >> > scrappy
> >> >> little New Hampshire Gazette. Fox news DOES have a
website, you
> > know,
> >> > AND a
> >> >> local affiliate in Boston that broadcasts some of the cable
news
> >> > stuff.
> >> >>
> >> >> I posted a reply to G.A.'s reference to baseball players (?)
going
> > on
> >> > the
> >> >> Queer Eye show. He was making note of that he'd seen an
> > advertisement
> >> > for
> >> >> the players' presence on the program. That's more than I knew
of
> > it.
> >> > I've
> >> >> never seen an episode of Sex and the City - isn't that on HBO
or
> >> > something
> >> >> like that? Don't have premium channels, only basic.
> >> >>
> >> >> >>Here's another one Turin. Last Tuesday, the
WSJ ran two
really
> >> > interesting
> >> >> >>articles - one about how China has made
inroads in EVERY
country
> > in
> >> > Africa
> >> >> >>in the last 5 years. They are building
infrastructure across
the
> >> > continent.
> >> >> >>They are rebuilding the Nigerian rail
system, have paved 80%
of
> > the
> >> > state
> >> >> >>highways in Rwanda, are working in over a
dozen countries
> >> > rebuilding
> >> >> >>electrical grids and telephone services, are
running the
largest
> >> > copper mine
> >> >> >>in Zambia. And are increasing their
influence while America
is
> >> > barely
> >> >> >>hanging on, and in many cases, losing influence.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That is a stretch.  China, the 'altruistic nation'.
> >> >>
> >> >> I wasn't saying it was.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > China, who persecutes, imprison's, and
torture's young AND
old
> > for
> >> > the
> >> >> > practice of Falun Gong.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > China's occupation and stranglehold on Tibet.
> >> >>
> >> >> :(
> >> >
> >> > Agreed.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> > China, continually rattling swords at Taiwan.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > China, whose industrial pollution is so bad, especially
mercury,
> > it
> >> >> > effects us here in the U.S.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > China, who is building the largest dam in the world to
control
> > the
> >> >> > flow of the Mekong River, which will effect the
flow of water
> > and
> >> >> > major dependency on it downriver in Laos,
Thailand, Myanmar,
> >> > Cambodia,
> >> >> > Vietnam.  These countries benefit from recurring flooding
> > (despite
> >> >> > damage and minimal fatality).  to replenish the
soil.  Not to
> >> > mention
> >> >> > the effects the dam will have on native species of fish.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Flooding is a way of life along the lower
Mekong River in
> > Vietnam
> >> > and
> >> >> > Cambodia. Every year between August and November, monsoon
rains
> >> > fill
> >> >> > the rivers of Southeast Asia, and the Mekong River Delta
> > broadens
> >> > well
> >> >> > past its dry season levels. The annual floods carry
> > nutrient-rich
> >> > silt
> >> >> > to farmland around the river and provide the
moisture needed
to
> >> > grow
> >> >> > vast fields of rice. Vietnam is the second
largest exporter
of
> > rice
> >> > in
> >> >> > the world behind Thailand, and the Mekong River
Delta is one
of
> > two
> >> >> > primary rice-growing areas in the country. The
second is the
Red
> >> > River
> >> >> > Delta in the north."
> >> >> >
> >> >> > From:  Flooding on the Mekong River
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/shownh.php3?img_id=12469
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>Here's a full paragraph from the article:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "China has simply exploded into Africa, as in
> > 'Katie-bar-the-door
> >> > stuff.'"
> >> >> >>says Walter Kantsteiner, a former U.S.
assistant secretary of
> > state
> >> > for
> >> >> >>African affairs. Adds Rep. Ed Royce, a
Californian Republican
> > and
> >> > vice
> >> >> >>chairman of a House subcommittee that deals
with Africa:
> > "China's
> >> > increasing
> >> >> >>engagement in Africa is a concern and we
need to focus on it
> > before
> >> > Beijing
> >> >> >>becomes fully established."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Here's the rub: China has no qualms about
doing business with
> >> > countries like
> >> >> >>Nigeria, or other brutal, corrupt dictatorships. It is
dropping
> > 300
> >> > million
> >> >> >>in Zimbabwe to rebuild it's electrical grid,
Mugabe's UN
> > sanctions
> >> > be
> >> >> >>damned. Also, since most of the businesses
going in are state
> >> > owned, they
> >> >> >>turn a modest 3% profit, if at all, while
Western businesses
so
> >> > used to
> >> >> >>short term, high profits for the
stakeholders, won't even
> > consider
> >> > an effort
> >> >> >>unless at least a 15% profit margin is sustainable.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Of course, the corruption will stop and the
people themselves
> > will
> >> >> > "profit".  Dictator's get what they
want, China gets what it
> >> > wants..
> >> >> > It's a win-win plan.  Except for the poor.
> >> >>
> >> >> You think the Chinese govenrment isn't corrupt itself? It's
> >> > communist! It is
> >> >> totally corrupt, and the countries it does business with may
very
> >> > well stay
> >> >> that way.
> >> >>
> >> >> Besides that, who was it sold them the tools over the years to
get
> >> > them this
> >> >> ability to expand? That's what I'm pissed about.
Oooooh, we can
> > make
> >> > them be
> >> >> like us and have capitalism and they'll be free - yeah right,
and
> >> > there's a
> >> >> few people from Tiananmen Square that might disagree
with that!
> >> >
> >> > The Chinese appear to be extracting the benefits of capitalism
> > without
> >> > feeling a necessity to become democratic.  In that sense, they
> >> > certainly have an advantage over us in that they can move more
> > swiftly
> >> > on several fronts getting ahead of us, while we do indeed help
them
> > do
> >> > so.  And I share your anger over that.
> >>
> >> The danger of the modern business model being embraced by a
political
> >> culture that is totalitarian. In today's WSJ, there is a wonderful
> > article
> >> written in the editorial section about the Pope, and why, in spite
of
> > the
> >> fact of an infinitesimally small numbers of Catholics in China,
the
> >> government there was afraid of letting him set foot on their soil,
so
> > strong
> >> was the moral authority and ability ot undermine inhuman value
> > systems that
> >> he had.
> >
> > I was reading an article today that credited the Pope, Reagan, and
> > Spanish King Juan Carlos I (for opening his country to democratic
> > elections) for doing the most to defeat communism.  I think
Margaret
> > Thatcher should have been included as well.  That article also
cited
> > the Pope's moral authority, especially his influence in Poland.
> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't worry, next they'll bust a move on Taiwan,
> >> >
> >> > As I've stated on other posts, my son is in the military.  My
wife
> > was
> >> > expressing concern about Iran being the next hotspot, but I'm
not
> >> > convinced it is.  I think we might be facing problems in Taiwan
> > before
> >> > that; either that, or the Chinese will wait until we're
> > sufficiently
> >> > distracted elsewhere before moving on Taiwan.
> >>
> >> Here's to hoping that
>
> ..it doesn't get to that state. (oops, forgot to finish that
sentence)

Fortunately, I was able to follow.   :)

> >
> > My fear is that a move on Taiwan will provoke a response from
Japan,
> > and that might draw us in.
> >
> >> >
> >> >> and will hold SO much of
> >> >> our debt, we will be unable to stop them, lest they dump US
> > dollars
> >> > onto the
> >> >> international money markets and tank the remainder if it's
value.
> >> >
> >> > Do you think they'd move that arbitrarily?  Their currency is
> > pegged to
> >> > ours, and right now it's to their financial advantage to stay
that
> > way;
> >> > it certainly makes it easier for them to fund their African
> > activities.
> >> >
> >> Honestly, I don't know for sure. They DO have their yuan pegged to
> > the
> >> dollar and the Fed wants that to change - I know that it is a bone
of
> >> contention with the Bush administration, but consider that if we
DO
> > get our
> >> way on that, it could mean that they would have less incentive to
> > stay any
> >> hand of that nature.
> >
> > Perhaps, but maybe it's best not to have the particular sword
hanging
> > over us any longer.  Short term pain for long term gain?
>
> You got it. No one wants to take the bite - I think it's that we've
gotten
> too soft.

Bingo.

> Between the WTC attack forcing us to spend money at a time we
> really weren't ready to, and Bush sending the troops into Iraq -
we've been
> outfoxed and stuffed into a hole, because the main monetary
philosophy in
> this country isn't to eschew debt. Voodoo economics indeed.

Wasn't it Daddy Bush who coined that term?

>
> Not to get too tangentally off track, I remember back to when Ross
Perot was
> running for president and in one of the debates he was in, he stated
that
> the one thing he learned from his years with GM, was when dealing
with
> arabs, you needed to realize that you'll never get one up on them.
They are
> the masters of wheeling and dealing. There is a converse realization
that
> they also know when to cost you: any good businessman who's out to
win
> understands this. I think for all of the skills of politicians, they
are
> plain out naive when it comes to seeing whole financial costs. Bin
Laden
> certainly didn't miss it..

I think politicians don't try and look for the unintended
consequences...and there are *always* unintended consequences.  Or they
deliberately overlook them and claim ignorance afterwards.

> >
> >> Just remember, that last week, the South Korean central
> >> bank started to speak of 'diversification' away from US dollars
> > (presumably
> >> to euros), and it sent the markets into a spastic fit - and this
was
> > just
> >> them talking about it!

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