Rob wrote:
> "Tron"  wrote in message
news:...
> > "Rafer"  skrev i melding
> > news:1112486181.151970.131130{at}z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > > 1. Men are restricted from controlling women through their
natural
> > > means - physical strength. This is said to be barbaric and brutal
and
> > > is heavily penalized.
> >
> > Yes, though an alternative system would need to solve a lot of
practical
> > problems.
> > We recognize that violence is not an argument in many other
contexts.
> > The ban on violence is actually general. To make an exception to
that by
> > allowing (only?) men to use violence against (only?) women would be
a bit
> > hard to explain.
> > There are also vast problems in drawing the line between sufficient
and
> > excessive violence, and legitimate and illegitimate violence.
> > Even if your analysis is correct, the solution does not present
itself
> > readily.
> >
> > >
> > > 2. Women are not restricted in any way from controlling men using
their
> > > means - emotional strength.
> >
> > It used to be that it was part of the rules for women that this
disparity
> > was recognized, and that it was acknowledged that women should not
exploit
> > it.
> >
> > Society IGNORES this specific kind of
> > > violence that is inflicted on men by women
> >
> > Men can, too.
> >
> > - that men are by nature not
> > > prepared to defend themselves against.
> >
> > I disagree. Of course men are not unable to defend themselves
against
> > emotional influence.
> > I mean, soldiers train to resist interrogation by hostile armies,
they
> > should be able to resist interrogation techniques by their wife.
> > And even so, men have never relied on nature alone. We can make a
technology
> > for this (like stoicism), as for any other thing.
> >
> > >
> > > 3. FURTHERMORE, today it is MEN who are blamed for inflicting
emotional
> > > violence on women (e.g. screaming at someone - which is
frequently a
> > > man's only defense against female manipulation given that he
cannot use
> > > his hands - is seen as violence committed by men against women) -
which
> > > is a gross mischaracterization of reality.
> >
> > Agreed.
> > >
> > > The solution: Either stay away from women; or, if you must be
around
> > > them, (i) make sure that you have an alibi at all times while in
their
> > > presence; and(ii) do not take them seriously AT ALL. Thinking of
them
> > > as children will help you retain an objective stance toward them.
> >
> > You should read Schopenhauer "On Women".
> >
> > ...
> > > Women have superior skills of manipulation, deception and
interpersonal
> > > communication. These skills developed to level the playing field
> > > against superior male strength.
> >
> > I would say that women's advantage is mostly political, in that
society's
> > values, norms and rules (like law) tend to represent women's
interest. They
> > have the system on their side. All they need to do, is to sit back
and let
> > the system run its course.
> >
> >
> > T
>
> It is hard to relate Schopenhauer's women to the present day version,
> as recent cultural changes have had such a large impact on how the
> deck is stacked. I agree with you that society's values, norms and
> rules today represent women's interests but your example of the
> soldier underestimates the age at which these values are imparted,
and
> therefore the techniques required to correct the problem.
>
> Western culture promotes women's interests in many subtle ways.  For
> example it inculcates the ideas of heterosexual romantic love and
> chivalry. This sets men up, from their early childhood, for emotional
> and resource abuse by women. (To be brutally honest it sets them up
as
> slaves.) It is hard to combat these subtle abuses in practice, as
> another poster has pointed out.
> What we should be doing, and many on this ng are doing, is
identifying
> and disputing these damaging cultural norms. For example, a woman
> claims her body is her own, a man claims his resources are his own.
> Which gender does society support? Is there a fair settlement of
> conflicting needs or is everything biased in support of one gender?

Are you saying that women are what they are, and men are what they
earn?

bluesmama



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