Regina Finan On (14 Jun 96) was overheard to say to All
 RF> Without a piece of paper to help with the math he can not do it.
 RF> Meaning he needs visually stimulation and other things to help
 RF> him learn.
 "piece of paper"?? I don't understand...are you talking about a sheet
 with the times table or 1+1 = 2, 1+2 = 3, etc?  If so that's a very
 reasonable accommodation, as would be the use of a calculator or
 manipulatives...
 RF> He still needs speech therapy and psycho therapy because there is
 RF> anger and resentment built up from not having help in school.  OK.
 Speech therapy if he needs it yes beyond doubt.  Psycho-therapy (talk
 therapy) for a young child is (strong opinion here) CRAP.
 RF> To me it makes more sense that the doctor may
 RF> have been wrong in diagnosing him ADHD and that maybe he was only ADD.
 ADD = Attention Deficit Disorder; ADHD = Attention Deficit Disorder
 WITH Hyperactivity.  I've read some research reports that are
 beginning to not distinguish between ADD/ADHD but are referring to all
 the sub-sets as Attentional Disorders.
 RF>  He was put on ritalin and it worked.
 If the ritalin worked for him then he probably does have ADD/ADHD.
 If he has a form of depression it wouldn't have done much of
 anything.
 RF> He was held back a year anyway and that next year he did very well
 RF> without the medication and with special education.
 Special education is too generic a term; specifically what services
 was he receiving?  That "it" worked is more than likely due to the
 individualized help he was getting from a special education teacher
 in his area(s) of weakness.
 RF> When we moved here to Lincoln Park they took him
 RF> off special education and he got steadily worse.
 If he entered the new school system with an IEP from the previous
 system the new one was obligated to provide the same services.  They
 can not just arbitrarily "take him off".  Were you notified of this
 intent?  If so did you agree to it?  If you were and didn't agree
 what was the school system's response (other than to "take him off")
 to your objections?
 RF> He just couldn't cope with ADD and no help. So it seems to me
 RF> that ADD and coping would cause the depression, not depression causing
 RF> ADD symptoms since very early age.
 You've got it!
 RF> And if he was depressed early on than it must of been some kind of
 RF> chemical imbalance to produce it.
 Again..you've got it!
 RF> Would a child get depressed at 3 or 4 over speech problems?  There
 RF> really weren't small children around the house I had friends that had
 RF> small children and we never ever made fun of his speech. I don't want
 RF> to play doubting thomas, but I am having a hard time with the order of
 RF> this diagnosis.
 Every child is different, you have more than one so you already know
 that, but it often needs to be said over and over again.  I have a
 nephew who is now almost 11.  He had delayed speech as a toddler and
 as he grew older there was a very noticeable articulation problem;
 none of his sibs, cousins, or adults ever "made fun" of it; everyone
 learned how to interpret his speech.  It took some convincing but his
 mother finally, when he was in 1st grade, went to war with the school
 system and got him the speech services he needed to function
 "normally" in the school setting.  He also receives outside speech
 therapy and both have helped him tremendously.  He still has the
 problem but he's learning how to overcome it and has made a great
 deal of progress.
 RF> Now I did ask her point blank if she felt the diagnosis the doctor
 RF> gave was wrong and she said yes and that she believes this diagnosis
 RF> is the right one.
 Of course she does, it's what she is "learning", I'd be willing to
 bet the ranch that she has been taught NOTHING about ADD/ADHD in any
 course she has taken.  It should be easy enough to find out by
 getting a copy of the course requirements for whatever degree program
 she is enrolled in.  The admissions office of her university will
 have plenty of information freely available for the asking.
 RF> Now she is a 2nd year graduate psychology major and the diagnosis
 RF> is supervised by professionals.
 Yes and no. SHE is supervised by a PhD instructor who is probably
 licensed by your state.  Did that person work with your child?  If
 the answer is no then all that was done was a review of the grad
 student's notes to see if she followed the course guidelines.  You
 have to understand that this grad student only has a bachelor's
 degree in (probably) psychology and is NOT qualified to be
 diagnosing mental illness in a child - that's what depression is, a
 mental illness.
 RF> So there is more than one opinion there,
 I disagree for the reasons stated above.
 RF> unfortunately it is hard for me to understand the order of this
 RF> diagnosis---depression causing ADD symptoms in a very young age.
 RF> I can see it in an older child, but not a child that young where
 RF> there is no abuse,verbally or physically, and plenty of attention
 RF> and a happy marriage.
 Your gut instinct is, IMNSHO, right.  You have EVERY reason to
 suspect depression caused ADD symptoms as young as 4;  you have every
 reason to suspect this grad student is way out in left field.  This
 is YOUR child that YOU are responsible for.  This grad student and
 her instructor may be very nice well meaning people but they have NO
 vested interest in the long term outcomes for YOUR child.
 It has been my personal experience in working with many master's
 level psychologists that they will come around annually to do an
 update on one of the kids I work with and instead of actually doing
 some new testing, or talking with the child, ask me and members of my
 staff "how is so and so doing in this or that"; I also frequently
 receive multi-page assessment tools that require marking one of 3 or
 4 choices regarding behaviors.  From this they will produce a high
 sounding report that purports to tell all about where the child is at
 that time.  It has always struck me as being and extremely sad
 comment on their professionalism that, when reading a series of these
 reports on the same child written by different psychologists, they
 all say the same thing and bear very little resemblance to the child.
 Not one of my colleagues places the slightest bit of credence in the
 contents of any of those reports. These reports have to be counter
 signed by a licensed PhD level psychologist who has NEVER even seen
 the child.
 RF> Thanks alot as I have alot of thinking to do.
 You sure do, and I do not envy you the task.  You have a momentous
 decision to make.  I wish you the very best in managing a difficult
 situation.
 Best regards.....Bob
 >>>>> The opinions expressed in this post are mine based on <<<<<
 >>>>> personal experience.  I will, hopefully, be able to   <<<<<
 >>>>> refrain from replying to the almost inevitable flames.<<<<<
... Relax.  Only dread one day at a time
--- PPoint 2.00
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