Mulling over George Pope to Steve Asher 12 Oct 2005

SA> acknowledged the "Seven Noahide Laws" as being the bedrock of
SA> civilisation. George W Bush is no exception.

 GP> And what's WRONG with the 7 Noachide laws?

Let's have a look at the implications of "breaching" some of
these "laws".

 GP> 1) You must not murder.

OK, a reasonable person might understand this as meaning that one must
not kill another person maliciously and without provocation (or however
a nation's laws define murder).

A "noahide court" might include such things as abortion; striking a
pregnant woman & killing the fetus; killing someone who is terminally
ill or falling off the top of a cliff - no "euthanasia" / mercy killing;
if a person sees someone pursuing another person with the obvious intent
of murdering him, & the observer is able to prevent the murder by
wounding the intending murderer, but kills him instead is guilty of
murder; taking the mother's life to save the fetus is murder; suicide
is forbidden; if a "ger toshov" kills an Israelite unintentionally
but negligently he is liable for the death penalty; possibly,
masturbation would be murder (wasting semen) -  possibly using a
condom with his wife before he has fulfilled his obligation to
bring a son and daughter into the world might be murder.

The Noahide murder trials will be interesting affairs, if some of
these issues come to trial.

 GP> 2) You must not commit theft.

This includes prohibitions on such things as rape, kidnap, false
weights & measures, desiring the property of another, entering a
property stealthily to recover one's own property, withholding 
the salary of a worker, duplicating an audio or video tape without
permission, refusing to repay a loan or return property et. Again,
the penalty is death - the courts will be fun places.

 GP> 3) You must not tear a limb off a live animal.

Again, this appears to punish eating the limb or flesh of a living
domestic or wild animal, but doesn't punish the similar acts with
a living chicken (forbidden, but not ounished). A limb or piece of
flesh hanging detached from its original position may be eaten
after slaughtering the animal if the limb could have been returned
to its original position & permitted the animal to live for another
year, but not otherwise... Again, courts will be kept busy, & the
executioner awaits the "guilty".

 GP> 4) You must not commit idolatry.

No worshipping a deity beside the Creator; serve no created thing -
angel, plant, star, earth, water, fire, air (pagans likely to be
in trouble here); one can apparently -make- an idol (Buddha statue
perhaps), but the offense occurs when he actually worships or serves
it; person transgresses only when he worships the idol in the norma
way ascribed to it - courts must know the appropriate service for
the idol in any case of idolatry; one should not incense & health
foods purchsed from Hindu sects and the like; lifting up a brick
& saying to it "you are my god" or similar is idolatry, & if this
was witnessed he must be brought to trial; if a thorn gets stuck
in someone's foot while he is in front of an idol, he must not 
stoop down to remove it, but should walk away from the idol first;
if there is statuary with faces that draw in or pour out water, one
must not drink the water by placing his lips on the statue's mouth
as it will look like he is kissing it; lots of prohibitions &
permissions on shapes of figures on rings or ornaments etc;
no public display of crosses (eg on churches), but personal use
- around the neck, on the rear view mirror - is permitted (but
would breach the Road Traffic Act in South australia) - it will
be a sterile world when the Judeo-noahides start removing the
crosses from Christian places (and worse).

 GP> 5) You must not commit illicit intercourse.

Again, the nit-picking continues - many are obvious, but others are
obsessive, like not punishing a man for having relations with a married
woman who has not consummated her marriage - but of course the Noahide
man will be executed if the woman is an Israelite; forbidden to signal
with the hands or the feet or to wink at any person who is in the
category of a forbidden relationship ... a man should not deliberately
smell the perfume or gaze at the beauty of a woman who is forbidden
(etc).

 GP> 6) You must not commit blasphemy

The act of cursing the Creator. Fair enough. However, among other things,
it includes the "false notion" that there are two powers, and two kingdoms,
God's and Satan's. All such theology denies that God is the Lord and Master 
of all. The teaching in Christian theology that the evil force rebelled 
against the Lord and set up a separate kingdom is tantamount to blasphemy;
transgressed even if one says "Merciful One", "The
Father", or any
descriptive term; one who curses God in the name of idolatry (which might
include worshippping God in Jesus' name in a church with a cross) is
subject to being attacked and killed by zealots, who are in turn held
harmless by the law ... etc.

 GP> 7) You must establish a system of justice

Hmmm.... this system of justice carry out justice in accordance with
the seven "universal laws"; the death penalty applies for failure to
set up or maintain the courts. The only punishment meted out by
Noahide courts in criminal cases is the death penalty; circumstantial
evidence is admissible; women, slaves, small children, fools & the
insane, the deaf & mute, the blind etc may not be witnesses or judges
in Noahide courts. Courts should not admit the testimony of anyone
unless it is ascertained that he is involved in keeping the Noahide
laws & does acts of kindness & is honest & upright; 

 GP> Certainly more sensible than the "10 Commandments" (which were
 GP> examples out of over 600 just for the Jews) since "observe the
 GP> Sabbath" isn't very universal (the 7 Noachide Laws are aka "The 7
 GP> Universal Laws")

 GP> Some would complain about #4 & #6 but without understanding the
 GP> context: 

 GP> 4) idolatry of the day included sacrificing live children so as to
 GP> get good crops

 GP> 6) blasphemy includes crapping on other's free expression of
 GP> religious belief. 

I will take my chances on the grace of God and his unmerited gift
of salvation and eternal life through His only begotten Son, Jesus
Christ. The Judeo-noahides can dismiss this as idolatry and blasphemy,
and seek to attain righteousness through law-keeping, but it will be
in vain.

The Noahide Laws, which the USA holds in such esteem, will make the 
Taleban & their implementation of Sharia Law look relatively benign.
No women as witnesses and judges; no deaf, mute or blind - that will
disenfranchise a large portion of the populace.

P.S. source - "Moshiach Online" - Morality ("The Creed of Noah")
  http://www.moshiach.com/action/morality/introduction.php & the links
to the various "laws".

Cheers, Steve..

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