BG> and grammar, but my main concern is with his pronunciation
BG> and elocution. After a few weeks of making him verbally
BG> repeat any word from which he drop the final letter(s)
BG> (*ing is the worst, as you'd expect),

Be fascinating to know what he thinks of having to do that |-)

BG> all is well until he spends a weekend in Toowoomba with
BG> his dole-bludging moronic natural father, then the whole
BG> cycle repeats itself.  So much for learning by example...

FM> The learning is only as good as the example.

BG> Nothing wrong with the example being set _here_, I can assure you. 

Yeah, but that change over the weekend is clearly
learning by another example. Which was Franks point.

BG> I'm more concerned with his inability to retain what he
BG> learns (in which case, "learn" is inaccurate).  It pisses
BG> me off no end that he's quite capable of reciting the words
BG> to most songs, and even fucking TV commercials, yet STILL
BG> hasn't bothered learning his 12X table by rote.

Maybe the first stuff is just automatic, no effort required.
Presumably he cant see the point in the 12X and he is right too.

BG> He failed Maths last year (indeed, all subjects) given the
BG> ridiculous method of scoring used in Qld schools these days.
BG> No marks per se, just five levels of accomplishment, and
BG> Robert scored level 4 with all subjects.  Very disappointing,
BG> even from a non-biological parent's POV.

Yeah.

BG> Even worse, it's simply extreme laziness on his part.

Nope.

BG> very much in keeping with my own observation that the
BG> majority of local school kids are simply lazy little shits.

FM> No doubt you're right,

BG> I'd hoped not, but do you have any other valid explanation?  I don't.

FM> Yes. Your learning by example example above.

BG> Dunno, I'd have hoped he would respect our examples considerably
BG> more than those of his peers, but it would appear not.

Its an unusual teenager who does. Thats what teenagers do mostly.

FM> No social pressure to do so.

BG> True, only parental pressure, FWIW
BG> (which, it seems, is SFA these days).

And which they have an almost automatic tendency to do the exact opposite.

FM> Positive peer pressure *not* to do so.

BG> You mean the typical "rebellious teenager" stuff?

Nope, the other kids. That is actually one of the most powerful
effects, they dont value the stuff you declaim is desirable.
Positive peer pressure to NOT do what you want done.

FM> Perceived irrelevance (Rod's argument).

BG> Despite typically knowing absolutely everything at age 15, I still
BG> doubt they're old enough to make an informed opinion either way myself.

You've missed the 'perceived' bit. THEY see it as irrelevant.
Thats a completely seperate question to whether it is irrelevant.
Yes, they certainly arent old enough to make an informed opinion
either way, but they make an opinion anyway. Everyone does.

And they are right too on spelling anyway |-)

FM> Current education philosophies.

BG> Another sore point.

FM> Individual teacher incompetence within the education system.

BG> Another VERY sore point.

FM> Cultural corruption (your TV comment below).

BG> IMO, one of the biggest problems of all.

I keep getting this vivid mental image of ancient greeks sitting
around in their sheets raving on the same way, 2K years ago |-)

FM> That's just off the top of my head. :-)

He's right, there are heaps of factors involved. Just
saying 'lazy little shits' isnt that productive.

BG> Mind you, given the amount of TV being watched by kids these
BG> days, some of the grammatical blunders made by news copywriters
BG> (and compounded by their readers) are disgusting (as my hero,
BG> Stuart Littlemore, so frequently and pungently points out).

FM> And pompously.

Yeah, I agree with Frank, particularly on the political correctness
stuff, he really does go completely over the top on that stuff.
I value the bits where he shows up the media for blatant dishonesty
and straight out fraud, but so much of its just Stew holding his nose
about irrelevant crap.

And when he pontificates on stuff like he did on the fact that
there should be no Foreign Correspondent, that stuff should
all be in 4 Corners or the 7:30 Report, IMO he is just plain
wrong. Ditto for his pontification that Aust doesnt need
anything other than free to air TV.

FM> He's not lily-white you know.

BG> No, but he's generally near enough IMO.

What happened on that 7:30 Report segment that shafted him ?
I was on the phone at the time, just had the screen on, no
sound, and didnt have a blank tape handy and so missed it.
He certainly didnt look that thrilled at being shafted |-)

FM> Nevertheless I too like Media Watch.

BG> I do have one major complaint, now that you mention it.
BG> 15 minutes is nowhere near long enough to stick it up
BG> the tabloid media, but IMO he still does an admirable
BG> job in the minimal (not minuscule :)) time allotted.

Dunno, I think there is too much crap. Like the current
'egregious tautology' stuff.

Some has a good eye for noticing patterns tho, like when
he showed how they had all got the fad of walking and talking
at once, and that business about those boring fine geometrical
ties there was a rash of at one time, damned near everyone
wearing the same tie |-)

He also falls into the classic trap that all those language

(Continued to next message)

--- PQWK202