SA>Daily planning is programming.
 CB> I must admit, words seem to be getting in our way - I did NOT envision 
 CB> daily planning as computer programming.  
The skills are the same. 
Is that not what different learning stuyles are all about?
 CB> I had assumed our discussion  was about using LOGO, BASIC or Pascal  CB> 
to write step-by-step instructions so as to get a computer to perform in  CB> 
a pre-determined manner.  
The skills are the same. 
Is that not what problem solving is all about?
 CB> If, indeed, we are talking about teaching  children to develop a daily  
CB> plan  for their activities, then I've  CB> been teaching it for 27 years.
SA> Organized thought is programming. 
 CB> I don't think so.
The skills are the same.  
Is that not what logic is all about?
SA> The computer is becoming as common as a telephone, television or use SA> 
of a car. Don't you think that these are  of value too?
 CB> As I understand it, only about 20% of all American homes have computers 
 CB> in them.  
Probably true, but it certainly is not going to stay that way.
 CB> I doubt that we could argue that computers are as common as telephones 
 CB> which are in probably over 90% of all U.S. households.  
Horseless carriage developed before decent roads, Ford saw beyond the trees.
Does this justify not using the valuable tool that a computer is?
 CB> Nor, do I believe, could you argue that anyone with the knowledge  CB> 
to use a telephone also has the knowledge to use a computer.
They will, the computer will replace the telephone.  Why wait?
SA>CB> As I said, I've seen many students who is simply turned off by SA>CB> 
the "logic, orderly thinking, refined argument and creativity" SA>CB> that 
you enjoy.  
SA>Only if the instructors are still fording the chalk board style of SA> 
teaching.
 CB> Oh, baloney!  I'm tired of being accused of being an inadequate teacher, 
 CB> even if indirectly, just because my view on programming differs from 
 CB> yours.  
So, maybe my argument is not the first? Maybe you might rethink something 
here?
The student is not going to wait for teachers to diversify.
 CB> Rick Pedley tried to pull the same argument and it is nothing 
 CB> more than a cheap shot by someone who has not provided a single shred of 
 CB> documentation or evidence to prove your point.  
 CB> I'm a highly respected teacher with 27 years of experience and can  CB> 
point to 5 or 6 years of on-the-job experience, even if it is  CB> anecdotal 
in nature, to backup my views.  If you REALLY want to  CB> change my mind, go 
find some evidence that schools that mandate  CB> instruction in computer 
programming in the middle school produce an  CB> inordinate number of 
programmers as those children graduate to adulthood.
So, you will throw away a whole generation of students before you consider a 
new teaching style?
SA> Only if you are going to make it as boring as possible.  
 CB> Baloney again.  Why not insult me again to prove your point?  For 
 CB> someone who seems to be so logical, it appears to me that the only way 
 CB> you think you can win this argument is to attack me personally.  How 
 CB> could you possibly know if I am a good teacher or not?
So, instead of supporting your issue, you are claiming this as a personal 
attack. Uhhhn YOU are the one that seems to want to hold programming at it's 
lowest level and maybe therefore keeping it away from the protected, teacher 
centered universe.  Programming allows the child to progress independantly.  
SA>Foreign languages are more of a waste of time, students are forced into
SA>those.
 CB> Perhaps you are right, but virtually every first world nation on earth 
 CB> requires their children to take a foreign language in school - and most 
 CB> do it MUCH better than the U.S.  
And what foreign language is that? I will be willing to bet that it is 
English.
Their reasons are more powerful than ours. There is an economic benefit to 
that, not the socioligical/cultural reasons we have for French and Spanish.  
Ugandans are not learning French and Spanish.
I believe that if they took a computer programming approach, our students 
would have a far more retention of the language than the conversaional 
approach.
--- DB 1.58/003138
---------------