SA>  GP> 1) You must not murder.
SA>
SA> OK, a reasonable person might understand this as meaning that one must
SA> not kill another person maliciously and without provocation (or however
SA> a nation's laws define murder).

The Torah clearly defines "murder" versus "homicide"

SA> A "noahide court" might include such things as abortion; striking a
SA> pregnant woman & killing the fetus; killing someone who is terminally

Then the Noachide court would be contradicting direct statements from God
regarding miscarriage/abortion(per your example)

SA> ill or falling off the top of a cliff - no "euthanasia" /
mercy killing;
SA> if a person sees someone pursuing another person with the obvious intent
SA> of murdering him, & the observer is able to prevent the murder by
SA> wounding the intending murderer, but kills him instead is guilty of
SA> murder; taking the mother's life to save the fetus is murder; suicide
SA> is forbidden; if a "ger toshov" kills an Israelite unintentionally
SA> but negligently he is liable for the death penalty; possibly,
SA> masturbation would be murder (wasting semen) -  possibly using a
SA> condom with his wife before he has fulfilled his obligation to
SA> bring a son and daughter into the world might be murder.

You're certainly adding much to the words & intent of Scripture!
Any "Noachide Court" would have to take into consideration all
legal precedent
as established by the High Judge Himself.

& you've previously stated that a new Sanhedrin would be the Supreme Noachide
Court, and they've already established, through Case Law that to receive the
death penalty one must have committed intentional murder, with malice
aforethought, with 2-3 eyewitnesses, who also were eyewitness to the fact that
the accused was warned of the consequences of his action, and he must have been
able to understand the warning/consequences.

SA> The Noahide murder trials will be interesting affairs, if some of
SA> these issues come to trial.

One of the Noachide laws is to form courts of justice -- we have such in the
nations, each of which prosecutes murder in its own way (none according to
Scripture, which requires 2 eyewitnesses)

SA>  GP> 2) You must not commit theft.
SA>
SA> This includes prohibitions on such things as rape, kidnap, false
SA> weights & measures, desiring the property of another, entering a
SA> property stealthily to recover one's own property, withholding
SA> the salary of a worker, duplicating an audio or video tape without
SA> permission, refusing to repay a loan or return property et. Again,
SA> the penalty is death - the courts will be fun places.

It also prohibits slander(theft of reputation) and, no, the penalty
specifically is NOT death!

It's to repay 120% of the value stolen.

SA>  GP> 3) You must not tear a limb off a live animal.
SA>
SA> Again, this appears to punish eating the limb or flesh of a living
SA> domestic or wild animal, but doesn't punish the similar acts with
SA> a living chicken (forbidden, but not ounished). A limb or piece of
SA> flesh hanging detached from its original position may be eaten
SA> after slaughtering the animal if the limb could have been returned
SA> to its original position & permitted the animal to live for another
SA> year, but not otherwise... Again, courts will be kept busy, & the
SA> executioner awaits the "guilty".

A chicken is an animal("creature")

And the Noachide Laws, like the Torah, aren't about "punishment"
they're about
dilineating the standards for a moral society.
(global & Jewish society, respectively)

This particular law has always been interpreted to be against cruelty to
animals in general.
(as many laws of the Torah validate/elaborate)

SA> would breach the Road Traffic Act in South australia) - it will
SA> be a sterile world when the Judeo-noahides start removing the
SA> crosses from Christian places (and worse).

The crosses go against the Christian Scriptures, too!

SA>  GP> 5) You must not commit illicit intercourse.
SA>
SA> Again, the nit-picking continues - many are obvious, but others are
SA> obsessive, like not punishing a man for having relations with a married
SA> woman who has not consummated her marriage - but of course the Noahide
SA> man will be executed if the woman is an Israelite; forbidden to signal
SA> with the hands or the feet or to wink at any person who is in the
SA> category of a forbidden relationship ... a man should not deliberately
SA> smell the perfume or gaze at the beauty of a woman who is forbidden
SA> (etc).

The plain interpretation is against incest & adultery.
Anything else is interpolated after the fact.

SA>  GP> 6) You must not commit blasphemy
SA>
SA> The act of cursing the Creator. Fair enough. However, among other things,
SA> it includes the "false notion" that there are two powers,
and two kingdoms,
SA> God's and Satan's. All such theology denies that God is the Lord and Master
SA> of all. The teaching in Christian theology that the evil force rebelled
SA> against the Lord and set up a separate kingdom is tantamount to blasphemy;
SA> transgressed even if one says "Merciful One", "The
Father", or any
SA> descriptive term; one who curses God in the name of idolatry (which might
SA> include worshippping God in Jesus' name in a church with a cross) is
SA> subject to being attacked and killed by zealots, who are in turn held
SA> harmless by the law ... etc.

You're right -- the Christian Church historically has done much to negate the
plain truths containd in God's Word! -- most Christians I know would rejoice to
see any corrections done to this blasphemy!

SA>  GP> 7) You must establish a system of justice
SA>
SA> Hmmm.... this system of justice carry out justice in accordance with
SA> the seven "universal laws"; the death penalty applies for failure to
SA> set up or maintain the courts. The only punishment meted out by
SA> Noahide courts in criminal cases is the death penalty; circumstantial
SA> evidence is admissible; women, slaves, small children, fools & the
SA> insane, the deaf & mute, the blind etc may not be witnesses or judges
SA> in Noahide courts. Courts should not admit the testimony of anyone
SA> unless it is ascertained that he is involved in keeping the Noahide
SA> laws & does acts of kindness & is honest & upright;

Where do you get this "death penalty" for not keeping any of the
Noachide Laws
(except for murder, because financial recompense is not allowed for the
illicit taking of human life.)

The same scriptural document that gives us the Noachide Laws gives us much
expansion as to what God meant. . .

SA>  GP> 4) idolatry of the day included sacrificing live children so as to
SA>  GP> get good crops
SA>
SA>  GP> 6) blasphemy includes crapping on other's free expression of
SA>  GP> religious belief.
SA>
SA> I will take my chances on the grace of God and his unmerited gift
SA> of salvation and eternal life through His only begotten Son, Jesus
SA> Christ. The Judeo-noahides can dismiss this as idolatry and blasphemy,
SA> and seek to attain righteousness through law-keeping, but it will be
SA> in vain.

& I will tell you plainly & truly that if you commit idolatry in the way of
Canaan, then you would clearly show yourself not to have ever been "reborn"
with a heart that has morals/ethics imprinted upon it.

and you'd just prove that your belief that you were saved was erroneous, and/or
based on erroneous information/beliefs.

SA> The Noahide Laws, which the USA holds in such esteem, will make the
SA> Taleban & their implementation of Sharia Law look relatively benign.
SA> No women as witnesses and judges; no deaf, mute or blind - that will
SA> disenfranchise a large portion of the populace.

Only in your expanded(& inaccurate) hyperbolic interpretation of them.

The prima facie statements are the ones that stand and they don't support your
fearmongering.

Because I care,
|<+]::-)  (Cyberpope(the Bishop of ROM!))


... nfx v3.1                                                                 
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