DH> KK> What you believe is none of my business, none of the ACLU's business,
DH> KK> and none of anybody else's business either.  Period.  But when you
DH> KK> try to make your religious beliefs into American policy, you are
DH> KK> violating everyone else's American right to not have to believe your
DH> KK> particular theology.
DH> Explain to me how the display of a Nativity scene on the lawn of city
DH> hall, as part of a larger display, makes Christianity public policy?
DH> How is allowing a Christian group to use school facilities(as they
DH> allow other groups), making Christianity a public policy? Both of these
DH> refer to actions of the ACLU, which have had the effect of limiting
DH> the expression of Christianity as compared to the rest of society.
Only in the context of government institutions.
DH> RP>I thouroughly enjoyed the reaction of that town in New Jersey to ACLU
DH> RP>court suits - they removed the Christmas displays and replaced them 
with
DH> RP>signs quoting the New Jersey Constitution preamble, which speaks of 
od
DH> RP>from beginning to end.  Another sign indicates the town will continue
DH> RP>its fight to restore religious freedom and once again proudly display
DH> RP>the emblems of the season on public grounds as has so long been the
DH> RP>tradition of this nation.
If the town contained any Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Moslems, or Navajo,
what do you think would happen if _they_ tried that?
DH> KK> The _US_ Bill of Rights (which states what governments _cannot_ do to
DH> KK> individuals) states that the lawmaking body shall not make any law
DH> KK> favoring any establishment of religion.
DH> I know of no law passed in my lifetime which has established
DH> Christianity as the state faith.
Why do the words 'de facto' spring to mind?
DH> RP>Open your eyes, Keith, what the ACLU supports is anything and 
everything
DH> RP>that is conducive to suppression of the Judeo/Christian ethic in this
DH> RP>country, and everything conducive to anarchy and/or socialism.
DH> KK> I would really appreciate it if you could explain how they could
DH> KK> be supporting both anarchy and socialism.  Could it be that they are
DH> KK> fighting against the fact that when one religious sect gains state
DH> KK> power, that sect immediately suppresses all other sects?  Read the
DH> KK> early history of the Puritans and other such groups.  They came here
DH> KK> seeking religious freedom, but once they got here, within six months
DH> KK> most had outlawed the practices of any sect but their own.
This bears directly on what we're arguing about.  It shows why the
Bill of Rights stated that laws were not to be made respecting any
establishment of religion.  As far as I can tell, the ACLU is
protecting that separation of church and state, and with good reason.
Please let me know if the ACLU has tried to suppress the Judeo/Christian
ethic in your church, mind, car, radio station, or any other aspect
of your life.
We're arguing around a much more important point here, so let me
state that point more clearly:  Do you believe the US government should
maintain a clear separation of church and state?
DH> I seem to recall having read somewhere(perhaps the two Roberts know of
DH> this) that the way to bring about a socialist state, one must first
DH> destroy the existing legal system,by bringing about a state of anarchy.
That's Communism you're talking about -- violent revolution, dictatorship
of the proletariat, etc.  When I finally got around to reading about
Marx, I couldn't believe he could be so incredibly naive as to think
that "when the state has withered away, the people will enjoy a new
freedom."  Even in the 30s, the Soviets demonstrated that it was
the people who withered away and the state that enjoyed a new freedom.
DH> The resulting disorder would be so great, that the people would be
DH> willing to give up much or all of their liberty in order to restore
DH> law and order.
I'm not sure how this applies to the ACLU's efforts to keep a clear
separation between church and state.
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