05 Jun 15 06:58, you wrote to me:

 ml>> to clarify: when i read a post, i see three or more characters when i
 ml>> should see one glyph...

 NB> Yep. Try quoting it and loading the message up in nano or vi and see if
 NB> that glyph is displayed correctly. If it is, then my assumption was
correct
 NB> in Golded+ not supporting UTF-8. I know there are some limited .CHS files
 NB> out there for translation, but Golded+ itself doesn't support UTF-8 at
all,
 NB> and it didn't seem like anyone was interested in adding that support. At
 NB> least that's the answer I got when I asked a couple years back.

 :(

 ml>> it gets worse when i reply, though... if i leave ""highascii""
 ml>> characters alone (by not traversing them when i write) they get
 ml>> converted... if i try to revise a post with those characters in it,
 ml>> they get converted again...

 NB> The only way I've gotten anything to work (half-assed, mind you) is with
an
 NB> external editor - unfortunately for both reading and writing.

i'm not going there... oh well... i guess i'll have to figure out how to set it
for CP437 and just be done with it... that works... i just don't know what
settings i need to change...

these are the only XLAT* settings i have in my golded.conf...

$ grep -Ei -e "^[x]lat" golded.conf
XLATPATH /home/myuser/fido/etc/charsets
XLATIMPORT LATIN-1
XLATLOCALSET UTF-8

and there's this include of the file generated from stas' script...

include /home/myuser/fido/etc/charsets.conf


 NB>>> What does "locale" output?

 ml>> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
 ml>> LANGUAGE=en_US
 ml>> LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_PAPER="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8"
 ml>> LC_ALL=

 NB> That's a damn good start, at least. :)

it came default like this...

 ml>> AND i've also added something (once for testing) that sets
 ml>> LC_ALL=$LANG which should be proper but... :sigh:

 NB> I don't think you need to force anything, but it shouldn't hurt either.

i thought i had read something about LC_ALL needing to be set, too, because
some programs are too stupid to look at the other settings... it didn't work
anyway :shrug:

 NB> When you're at a console prompt, can you type ALT-246 to display a
 NB> ö?

no... when i try to type anything in konsole at the prompt, it switches the
prompt to say "(arg: xxx)" where 'xxx' is the numbers i type... but the
character is not shown even after hitting enter... this may be a konsole
problem, though... i even installed xterm looking for the uxterm script which
apparently sets up a utf-8 working xterm... i just tried both with ALT-246 and
ALT-148... in both cases, it just put the numbers on the screen like it didn't
recognize the ALT key was even being held down... i tried both left and right
ALT keys, too... no change...

 NB> If so, it's only confirming my original statements about a UTF-8
 NB> compatible editor being used, because Golded+'s internal editor isn't
 NB> very capable in that regard. :(

i can, however, see utf8 characters quite well... try this from a command
line... you'll have to scroll back up but you should see the kanji (i think
that's the name) glyphs in your text console...

curl http://www.nhk.or.jp/ | lynx -dump -stdin

works well under konsole, xterm and the uxterm wrapper... the last two being
executed from my konsole prompt... that's all the command prompts i have other
than the raw TTY ones...

 NB>>> If you use a 512 glyph UTF-8 font, you won't see the CP437
 NB>>> characters properly (they are mapped differently) unless you
 NB>>> convert them with iconv. You can, however use a limited 256 glyph
 NB>>> UTF-8 font that will display it properly with a couple "echo"
 NB>>> lines set in your profile.

 ml>> i know about the mapping thing... but i don't know how to set a 512
 ml>> character glyph set... i've tried numerous inkantashions but nothing
 ml>> has worked :(

 NB> At the moment I have my machine load up into a 256 glyph font (for when
I'm
 NB> tinkering with Mystic I can see the config menu as it's supposed to look).
 NB> But a simple:

 NB> $ reset
 NB> $ setfont ter-v14b

 NB> ..gives me a nice 512 glyph font that's easy on my eyes.

yeah, you've spoke of that before but i don't have that font named like that...
i do use terminus but...

$ setfont -V
setfont from kbd 1.15.5

$ setfont --help
Usage: setfont [write-options] [-] [newfont..] [-m consolemap] [-u
unicodemap]
  write-options (take place before file loading):
    -o    Write current font to 
    -O    Write current font and unicode map to 
    -om   Write current consolemap to 
    -ou   Write current unicodemap to 
If no newfont and no -[o|O|om|ou|m|u] option is given,
a default font is loaded:
    setfont         Load font "default[.gz]"
    setfont -    Load font "default8x[.gz]"
The - option selects a font from a codepage that contains three fonts:
    setfont -{8|14|16} codepage.cp[.gz]   Load 8x font from codepage.cp
Explicitly (with -m or -u) or implicitly (in the fontfile) given mappings
will be loaded and, in the case of consolemaps, activated.
    -h      (no space) Override font height.
    -m     Load console screen map.
    -u     Load font unicode map.
    -m none    Suppress loading and activation of a screen map.
    -u none    Suppress loading of a unicode map.
    -v         Be verbose.
    -C   Indicate console device to be used.
    -V         Print version and exit.
Files are loaded from the current directory or /usr/share/*/.


 NB>>> Welcome to the world of sysop readers. None of them support UTF-8
 NB>>> properly.

 ml>> supposedly this is why there are others that are trying to advance the
 ml>> tech that are working on such... i've always heard that golded has
 ml>> superior support but i just don't see it right now... especially since
 ml>> i'm on an OS that definitely supports it and in a terminal that also
 ml>> supports it...

 NB> From what can tell, someone started the attempt at adding support for it,
 NB> but stopped at a certain point (I'm guessing the 128 or 256 glyph limit
 NB> Golded+ currently has in place (see: character translation tables) and
 NB> didn't go any further. Then in the past few years when I asked about it, I
 NB> was told it would basically require a complete overhaul and noone was up
to
 NB> the task.

 :(

 NB>>> That's why using an external editor is the only way to accomplish
 NB>>> the task. Golded+'s internal reader will not display UTF-8
 NB>>> properly. So when I quote the message and shell out to nano, I
 NB>>> then see everything the way it's supposed to be seen.

 ml>> i understand but that's like the chicken and the egg... kinda...

 NB> I know. But it's the only decent way I've found to have it work with my
 NB> system. I just have to ignore the fact that Golded+ doesn't support it
very
 NB> well, but once I get into nano everything looks great.

yeah... i think i'm more inclined to switch to CP437 and be done with it...
hopefully i'll be able to see the box graphics and other related glyphs...
that's all i really want... i don't care if it really displays kanji, or
arabian or cyrillic or any other glyphs... i can't read'em any way...

 NB>>> As non-right as it sounds, thats our only current option unless
 NB>>> you or someone else with the knowledge wants to create a new
 NB>>> sysop reader/editor that does in fact support it. :)

 ml>> as noted above, supposedly those knowledgable are working on it but...

 NB> I thought I had heard about Kees working on something? If so, great! I'll
 NB> definitely give it a whirl if/when he's/they're looking for testers. :)

at this point, i'm kinda game, too... since i got the new workstation, i've
moved all of my stuff back over to it instead of using the laptop all the
time... the only real difference is the OS and that meant having to change the
programs and tools used for FTN stuffs...

 ml>>>> how can i check what font is being used? this reader shows
 ml>>>> single and double line borders itself just fine... just none of
 ml>>>> those in the stats echo are showing properly... that's the main
 ml>>>> testing area... when that stuff displays properly, then
 ml>>>> everything else should too...

 NB> For that to be fixed (I'm assuming you're currently using a 256 glyph font
 NB> - especially if you're using the "default-8x16" that most distros start
you
 NB> out with), try adding this to your /etc/profile at the very end:

 NB> echo -e "\033%@" && echo -e "\033(U"

 NB> And re-login to your console.

i think we're trying this on T's mystic installation but it has no GUI at
all... only the raw TTY... it helps with some things but not all of the drawing
characters are displayed properly...

 NB> Then make sure you're not translating anything to UTF-8 in Golded+'s
 NB> config.

see above... i haven't figured it all out yet and reading the raw manuals is a
little hard with the formatting codes in them...

 NB> Setting these three things seem to make the decisions for you:

 NB> exlatlocalset
 NB> exlatimport
 NB> exlatexport

as noted above, i don't have an export one set... i have the local and the
import and assume that it is setting utf8 in the control line... i'll have to
try to figure out how to do ALT-xxx codes in konsole...

see tag line... if this is paradise, i'm not so sure it has the right name ;)

)\/(ark

... We each pay a fabulous price for our visions of paradise -Rush
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