24 May 09 21:07, Ross Cassell wrote to TIM RICHARDSON:

 JB>>> "On May 14, 1948, the United States, under President
Truman, became
 JB>>> the first country to extend de facto recognition to the State of
 JB>>> Israel, 11 minutes after Israel declared itself an independent
 JB>>> nation.

 TR>> That was the biggest mistake an American president ever made.

 RC> One could argue that Vietnam ranked up there.

Not even close.

 RC> After all, our involvement only delayed the North gobbling up the
 RC> South by only 10-25 years, and it didnt alter the outcome of the cold
 RC> war chess match which the Soviets ultimately lost.

And today it isn't anything to America but a bit of history. Hopefully one
we learned from.

 TR>> It involved America in the Arab-Israeli war.....which has been going
 TR>> on for thousands of years....since back before the days of Abraham,
 TR>> Isaac, and Jacob!

 RC> More Cold War Politics...

You must have overlooked the Balfour Declaration of 1917. Not much of a
'cold war' going on in those days. Not even a Russian influnce in the
area.

 RC> Remember the USSR recognized Israel too, or did you forget that?

That would have been because Nazi Germany recognized and made the
Palestinians an ally before WW2. Russian retalliation, so to speak.

 RC> Had we not stepped in, the USSR would have simply exercised its
 RC> influence..

Britain already had the place to themselves.

 RC> Pure and simple a game of chess, we move they counter-move and vice
 RC> versa.

 TR>> And that has come back to slap America in the face, big time.

 RC> Every action has an opposite reaction...

 RC> Had we stayed out, perhaps the Kremlin would have been the ones
 RC> influencing the Sheiks on the price of oil?

Even better, helped them to eliminate the state of Israel.

 TR>> It was a direct cause of the 9\11\01 attack on America!

 RC> It is part of one factor...

 RC> Being in Saudi Arabia among other things played in as well.

So you're saying that the Saudi's have no influence with the rest of the
Arab world.

 TR>> There's no other way to say it: that goddamn, fucking Israel has
 TR>> cost
 TR>> America:

 TR>> High gasoline prices

 RC> No we got plenty of people over here to blame for that..

The Arab Oil Tycoons have just made it clear that Middle-East oil will
rise to $75/bbl if they have their way.

 TR>> Dead and injured over a period of about forty years

 RC> Drama...

 RC> Vietnam..

A drop in the bucket compared to what we're headed for in the
Middle-East.

 RC> Was that Israels fault, should we blame Korea on them as well..

Let's stick with the present situation. Vietnam has nothing to do with
this one.

 RC> How many lives lost or ruined?

Not many.

 RC> What about the death toll we suffer on our own highways?

Has nothing to do with this situation.

 TR>> A continuing war that we probably won't win, because the goddamn
 TR>> fuckin' democrats suck, and ain't got no fuckin' guts!

 RC> No the Dems hate Israel as much as you do if not moreso.

Another war is their outlet for the bad economy we're experiencing right
now. Dems are war-mongers too.

 TR>> The dirty low-dog sons-of-bitches steal technology from us, practice
 TR>> espionage against us, treat us like an enemy. We ought to carpet
 TR>> bomb the whole fuckin' country of Israel!

 RC> Yes and your point..

Over you head, I guess.

 RC> If you dont think we havent spied on our own allies, UK, NATO and the
 RC> ilk, you are sadly mistaken.

I don't think so.

 TR>> If I had my say, Israel would have been on its own from day one! And
 TR>> any espionage Israel did against the United States would have
 TR>> brought an air strike!

 RC> You forget that Israel won its first war without our help or
 RC> armaments..

Better check your history books. Israel was surrounded and on the verge
of being beaten in the 1948 war by the Arabs, when the US reversed it's
position in the UN and threatened to insert troops in the region.

 RC> We started helping them when the Soviets began helping Israels foes,
 RC> its CHESS.

Wrong...The Soviets declined to vote on the US proposal to reconsider
what they believed to be the Palestinian problem.

 TR>> Fuck Israel! And all its supporters, too! Tom Lantis and the whole
 TR>> fuckin' bunch of 'em! If it wasn't for Israel.....the United States
 TR>> would not be at war today! Gasoline would be priced decently, and
 TR>> the majority of the world wouldn't hate us!

 RC> Its not that simple Tim, but everyone wants a whipping boy.

I can understand his position...with a bit more of life experience, you
might get there yet.

                R\%/itt

Joy lives in the fight, in the attempt, in the suffering involved, not in
the victory itself.

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