BG> Take RTL for example (please!), he professes to be a programmer,
BG> yet his spelling is so atrocious, that I can't imagine any of his
BG> programs ever compiling or running correctly.

RS> Very simple really, what affects good spelling has SFA to do with what
RS> affects being a good programmer, or getting programs to compile or run.

BG> We have discussed this previously in Avtech (I think), and I disagree
BG> no less now than before.  Complex code is completely unforgiving when
BG> it finds a spelling error, you know that as well as I do.

RS> Yes, but you have missed the point completely.

RS> Stuff like variable names arent learnt like spelling of english words are.

BG> Yeah, even a complete fuckwit like me knows that.

RS> They are much more ephemeral things than that and may
RS> well only be used in a particular program. Particularly
RS> the more complex names which are harder to get right.

BG> Which should make learning spelling even easier, not fucking harder.

Nope, you dont get to have to learn.

RS> And they dont have the bizarre variation you get with english,

BG> Won't wash, Rod.

Fraid so.

BG> I'm not talking about incorrect tense, nor even specifically grammar
BG> (although Christ knows that's bad enough these days), but misspelling
BG> the root word, due to either laziness, or a simple inability to learn
BG> by rote, and if it's the latter, they're fucked as programmers.

Still mangling the story completely. The problem with most english
spelling is the weird exception stuff, the surprisingly complex rules
on when you use 'ie' and when you use 'ei', the weird variation in
the spelling as you pluralise the word, the variety where you get
an 'sc' in obscene but not in obscession. There is nothing like that
in programming. And with stuff like variable names, you invent them
yourself and the complier couldnt give a shit what you do, as long
as you spell it the same way every time you use it.

RS> since you invent the stuff like variable names yourself.

BG> Says nothing useful about correct spelling in general though.

Pity you were talking about programming and whether lousy english
spelling says a damned thing about effectiveness as a programmer.

RS> And part of the reason that modern languages are much more
RS> productive is that you use declarations etc which catch misspelt
RS> variable and function names, even if thats only with a warning message.

BG> The idea is to spell it correctly in the first place, not continually
BG> have it spew when trying to compile.  So much for productivity...

You have a brain fart here. You said you couldnt understand how his
atrocious spelling didnt stuff his programming. The reason is that
even if you do occasionally get a variable name spelt wrong, its no
big deal at all, its normally caught at compile time with a modern
language and so you can program fine. Yes, its a tad faster if you
never ever make a mistake, but it has little effect on productivity
if you dont, its a tiny part of the time you spend writing the code.

RS> Its nothing like spelling, so being bad at spelling
RS> proves SFA about whether you can program effectively.

BG> As you wish.  I'll just agree to disagree then.

You can do whatever you like, you know fuck all about programming
anyway, so what you believe doesnt matter a stuff really |-)

Your original said 'I cant imagine', the explanation is obvious.

BG> The only explanation I can offer is that their attitudes
BG> towards learning are far more intense than ours, which is
BG> very much in keeping with my own observation that the
BG> majority of local school kids are simply lazy little shits.

RS> Or they have enough sense to realise that there are
RS> more important things in life than perfect spelling.

BG> The spelling was merely an example of what appears to be the Asians'
BG> totally different mindset and attitude towards learning in general.

RS> It proves SFA about anything much.

BG> Rubbish.  It proves that they try harder.  And generally succeed.

You dont even know that, your particular example doesnt
actually prove a damned thing about anything much.

RS> Doing well at spelling is primarily a result of a particular
RS> type of memory. Sure, if you dont have a very good memory for
RS> it, you can help with dedication, but thats not what those
RS> winners of competitions like that are usually, its normally
RS> just that they have the sort of memory that favours that task.

BG> It's not just spelling bees Rod, this applies across the board.

Pity you fucked up using the spelling example then |-)

BG> The simple OBSERVED fact is that the ethnic minorities (and
BG> especially asians) frequently just try harder, simple as that.

Some do, some dont. The italians sure dont do too well at spelling |-)

BG> Maybe possible loss of face comes into it, I don't know.

RS> Nope, its got SFA to do with it.

BG> I wouldn't be too sure about that.  It's actually very true. 

Its a western urban myth.

BG> Example, my local pharmacist has employed a Vietnamese Buddhist
BG> pharmacology student for a couple of years, and she not long ago
BG> graduated with honours (and married at the same time), and she
BG> told me more than once that it was extremely important for her
BG> to do well, so as not to shame her parents or family.  That's just
BG> one example, but it proves that your SFA comment doesn't apply.

Bullshit it doesnt. You might try explaining why the Vietnamese
gangs in Cabramatta dont appear to worry to much about that stuff.

RS> The success of asians in school stuff in general
RS> is just a combination of two things, they tend to
RS> have a higher IQ than the dregs of our society,

BG> True, no argument with that at all.

RS> and they have the usual immigrant approach of trying harder and have
RS> a lot more emphasis in their sub society on that sort of achievement.

BG> Sure, that's basically what I'm suggesting anyway.

Nope, you were making a comment about 'loss of face'.
Thats not what 'loss of face' means.

RS> The same thing happened with the jews in previous generations,
RS> particularly just after the war. The expectation that you will
RS> try hard to get decent results to get somewhere in a academic

(Continued to next message)

--- PQWK202