On 01-06-98, DAVID HARTUNG declared to ROBERT PLETT:
DH> Robert, are you advocating the establishment of religion at the state
DH> level?
No, simply pointing out how utterly absurd the anti-Christian nonsense
has become, and how incredibly distorted is the view of the Constitution
of those who try to use it to remove Christianity from public life.
DH> RP> When the founders expressed concern about religious establishments by
DH> RP> the federal government, it was particular Christian sects, or what
DH> RP> today we call denominations that concerned them - they didn't want a
DH> RP> federally mandated Christian denomination.  To them, impartiality
DH> RP> between other faiths, and/or a lack of belief in God, and 
Christianity,
DH> RP> was out of the question - Christianity was the faith of the nation, 
and
DH> RP> they based our laws on that premise and that foundation, and not just
DH> RP> assumed, but intended that would always be so.
DH> Do you believe that this should still be our approach, especially
DH> given the wide variety of religious practice in our country?
Absolutely!
This nation became a beacon of liberty to the entire world because of
the Christian faith of our forefathers and the fact they wove its
principles into the very fabric of our institutions and our laws.
   "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected,
   in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the
   principles of Christianity."  - John Quincy Adams
To the degree our government becomes indifferent to Christianity, or
hostile to it, or is impartial between it and other beliefs, it is to
that degree we lose the liberty we once knew.  People of other faiths,
or no faith at all, who attempt to bring about such conditions, imperil
their own freedom in this country to worship or not worship at all
as their conscience dictates - they imperil the nation itself.
For anyone who loves liberty, it is sheer folly to in any way attempt to
undermine that which brought it about.
People are trying with all their might to do that very thing, and we see
our liberties being eroded on every hand as a direct consequence.
Apostate nations are not great nations, nor are they free.
   "To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil
   freedom and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys.
   In proportion as the genuine effects of Christianity are diminished
   in any nation, either through unbelief, or the corruption of its
   doctrines, or the neglect of its institutions; in the same proportion
   will the people of that nation recede from the blessings of genuine
   freedom, and approximate the miseries of complete despotism."
       - Dr. Jedediah Morse, April 25, 1799
To all who see and deplore the decline of this nation and our society,
and the erosion of our Constitution and our liberties, I say it will not
stop until the God of the Bible is returned to His rightful place in the
nation's affairs.
To all who love liberty and seek its restoration, I say, first, join the
fight to return this nation to that which made it great, a nation under
God, and the rest will follow.  Fail in that, and liberty is impossible
and will vanish from this land - we will have first squandered and then
rejected our heritage and put our posterity in chains, to our eternal
shame.
DH> RP> On the First Amendment: "An attempt to level all religions, and to
DH> RP> make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference,
DH> RP> would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal
DH> RP> indignation."  The real object of the Amendment being, "to prevent
DH> RP> any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a
DH> RP> hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government."
DH> RP>
DH> RP> -  Justice Joseph Story, "Commentaries on the Constitution
DH> RP> of the United States"
DH> The first Amendment does state that Congress shall not establish a
DH> religion.
It says Congress shall make no law establishing one.  As noted before,
praying, preaching, quoting scripture, posting the Ten Commandments,
erecting statues of Moses in the Supreme court (there is one there, and
I believe one, or maybe a relief, is also in the House chamber),
and acknowledging the blessings of Almighty God, are not law-making.
Anti-Christian zealots have incredibly distorted what the First
Amendment and its use of the word "establishment" meant to those who
wrote it and ratified it.
   "On every question of [the Constitution] let us carry ourselves back
   to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit
   manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be
   squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the
   probable one in which it was passed."  - Thomas Jefferson
The Constitution was intended to be a firm anchor, not a reed bending in
the wind.
DH> RP> "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great
DH> RP> nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on
DH> RP> religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ." - Patrick Henry
DH> Robert, this is an interesting line of thought here.  If we were to
DH> return to a strict, literal interpretation of the Constitution,
DH> there would be no establishment restriction at the state level.
To the extent there is one now is due the Supreme Court's erroneous
application of the 14th Amendment in a manner never conceived of by
those who wrote it, and the spineless failure of the states to resist,
and the spineless failure of Congress to discipline and correct the
Court.  As Fob James, I think it was, said, in the early days of this
republic the Court wouldn't have dared such distortion of the
Constitution, knowing they'd likely find themselves jailed if they
tried.
In point of fact, the states withdrew from such establishments fairly
early on, despite having, and knowing they had, the Constitutional
right to those establishments.  Our forebears were strong Bible
believing Christians, but they generally despised church hierachys.
DH> While I am certain I would not want each state to establish a
DH> religion, it might almost be worth it, just to see the ACLU have a
DH> cow!
Whether any state does that is up to the people of that state.  For you
and me, if we don't want such, then it's up to us, by our forefathers'
design, to involve ourselves in such questions in our own states.
However, it's none of your business or mine, whether Utah, for example,
is Mormon or not.  |-)
Bob     /\-/\   - proud Ilk   homebody@galstar.com
C.A.T. ( o o ) Chapter Ilks
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Green Country - Oklahoma      http://www.galstar.com/~homebody/
 * SLMR 2.1a * And behold, I am coming quickly - Rev 22:7
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