BG> my main concern is with his pronunciation and elocution. After
BG> a few weeks of making him verbally repeat any word from which
BG> he drop the final letter(s) (*ing is the worst, as you'd expect),

RS> Be fascinating to know what he thinks of having to do that |-)

BG> Who gives a fuck what he thinks?  He's just a bratty teenager.

Charming |-)

BG> All I know is that it works (for a while anyway).

So would breaking his arm |-)

BG> all is well until he spends a weekend in Toowoomba with
BG> his dole-bludging moronic natural father, then the whole
BG> cycle repeats itself.  So much for learning by example...

FM> The learning is only as good as the example.

BG> Nothing wrong with the example being set _here_, I can assure you.

RS> Yeah, but that change over the weekend is clearly
RS> learning by another example. Which was Franks point.

BG> Yeah, I realise that, but he spends fewer than 2 days
BG> a month with his father, yet comes back with all of the
BG> bad habits that took us the other 28 days to eradicate.
BG> It'd be easier to train a fucking chimpanzee IMO.

Probably.

BG> I'm more concerned with his inability to retain what
BG> he learns (in which case, "learn" is inaccurate).
BG> It pisses me off no end that he's quite capable of reciting
BG> the words to most songs, and even fucking TV commercials,
BG> yet STILL hasn't bothered learning his 12X table by rote.

RS> Maybe the first stuff is just automatic, no effort required.

BG> Yoy hear or read something often enough, you learn it.

Yes, and that doesnt happen with the 12X table automatically does it ?

BG> That's what "learning by rote" means.  Nothing to do with
effort at all.

Bullshit. That other stuff he is exposed to and absorbs without
even thinking about it, the 12X table isnt like that, so it doesnt.

RS> Presumably he cant see the point in the 12X and he is right too.

BG> Bullshit, he (and you) are dead fucking wrong about that,
BG> and if you can't see that, there's no point arguing with you.

Pity he cant either, and just ignores you nutty ideas |-)

BG> Read the next bit again...

No thanks, read it fine the first time.

BG> He failed Maths last year (indeed, all subjects) given the ridiculous
BG> method of scoring used in Qld schools these days. No marks per se,
BG> just five levels of accomplishment, and Robert scored level 4 with all
BG> subjects.  Very disappointing, even from a non-biological parent's POV.

RS> Yeah.

BG> Yeah indeed!  He failed maths BECAUSE he didn't
BG> learn the fucking basics when he should have.

Pity thats not the 12X table tho Bill.

BG> Can you imagine anybody gaining an electrical engineering degree
BG> without first learning and understanding Ohm's Law?  I sure can't.

Pity that says SFA about the 12X table tho.

BG> Even worse, it's simply extreme laziness on his part.

RS> Nope.

BG> Thanks for the 1500km-distant diagnosis Rod, but as somebody who lives
BG> with the boy, if I tell you that he's a lazy little shit, believe it!

Corse it might just be that you are just doing the usual, leaping
to a silly conclusion, that even Frank at a similar distance ALSO
remarked on. Funny that |-)

BG> very much in keeping with my own observation that the
BG> majority of local school kids are simply lazy little shits.

FM> No doubt you're right,

BG> I'd hoped not, but do you have any other valid explanation?  I don't.

FM> Yes. Your learning by example example above.

BG> So he's lazy.  He only learns what HE wants to learn.

So there are other factors involved in what 'HE wants to learn' than 'lazy'

BG> Dunno, I'd have hoped he would respect our examples considerably
BG> more than those of his peers, but it would appear not.

RS> Its an unusual teenager who does. Thats what teenagers do mostly.

BG> Yeah, I know.  I was a teenager once, in case you've forgotten.

So you silly claim has gone bang hasnt it ?  Its NOT just lazy.

FM> No social pressure to do so.

BG> True, only parental pressure, FWIW (which, it seems, is SFA these days).

RS> And which they have an almost automatic tendency to do the exact opposite.

BG> So whose fault is that then?  It sure ain't ours.

Never said it was, its just the way most teenagers operate. It part
of distancing themselves from their parents and flaunting their right
to make decisions for themselves, which are often pretty stupid
decisions, precisely because they are usually in no position to make
decent ones. That the  way the vast bulk of teenagers operate Bill.
Its just another manifestation of the old saw about teenagers thinking
they know everything. Humans beings evolved that way basically.

FM> Positive peer pressure *not* to do so.

BG> You mean the typical "rebellious teenager" stuff?

RS> Nope, the other kids. That is actually one of the most powerful
RS> effects, they dont value the stuff you declaim is desirable.

BG> Then they lack respect for their parents and their opinions.

They do indeed. Have you only just noticed that ?

RS> Positive peer pressure to NOT do what you want done.

BG> I can see that, but don't really understand why.  Never will either.

It really is a very basic part of how humans have evolved. Its what gets
kids moving away from their parents and operating independently. Yes,
that usually does see some ludicrous stuff coz they are essentially still
operating with trainer wheels, but there aint no other way to do it, the

(Continued to next message)

--- PQWK202