-=> Quoting Karolina Stutzman to Jim Casto <=-
 KS> Absolutely.  No shame in getting your hands dirty.  Jim, er, exactly 
 KS> *how* small a scale are you talking about here?  I refuse to grow 
 KS> my own tobacco or flax.  (g)  Likewise, I'm willing to knit my own   
 KS> stockings again, but I don't really want to raise a few sheep to do
 KS> it.   
 
 The wife and I almost always look at any "item" with the "Could I make that
 for less?" question. We do some canning, such as applesauce and vegetables.
 The wife has been known to sew her own clothes if she can get the material
 cheap enough, but if she sees a blouse on the rack on sale for less than
 she can buy the material, she will buy it. We are getting up in age so the
 physical labor is a drawback but we have been known to pick strawberries for
 home use. (Now we buy the berries by the flat. Directly from the farm. )
 And it's amazing the amount of fresh vegetables my wife can produce
 from a VERY small garden patch. 
 
 JC> And some people have the false impression that it is "time-saving".
 KS> I'm lost... That *what* is time-saving?  Are you referring to large 
 KS> scale operations whether in farming, baking, clothing, etc.?
 
 It is a fairly widespread "theory" that humankind now "works" at an
 occupation far longer to obtain what "they" feel are the "necessities of
 life" than their ancestors. In tribal societies, for example, NOBODY worked
 forty hours a week virtually year-around.  So are you really saving any
 time?
 
 KS> Yes.  It seems that our desire for material gain *and* the desire for
 KS> an "easy" or "easier" life has locked us into the position of working
 KS> for someone else.  I don't think it's quite as simple as it appears.
 KS> If you are saying that it would be possible to maintain the "material
 KS> easy" life by reverting to a smaller scale, I don't think we'd have 
 KS> enough hours in the day.
 Oh... The wife and I think that's VERY easy. Our house cost about $70,000.
 We paid cash and there is no mortgage. A co-worker just had a house built
 for about a quarter of a million dollars and his old house hasn't even sold
 yet. Which of us is working harder for housing?
 
 Some of my co-workers invariably get most of their meals from the "deli" on
 the way home from work. They work longer hours to pay someone else to 
repare
 their meals for them.
 
 There are all kinds of books on the market about what is commonly called:
 "downshifting".
 KS> I suppose to discuss this we'd really need
 KS> to define what you meant by "small scale" and "providing
 KS> subsistence".  But, I do think that if we would be willing to curtail
 KS> our materialism and get our own hands dirty now and again, then
 KS> perhaps it might be  possible to think on a smaller scale.
 
 Oh, you don't even have to get your hands dirty. For example: Many people
 will go to the local video store and rent a movie for probably (on the
 average) three dollars. The local library where I live lets you check out
 movies just like books. Buying resale items like clothing, furniture, etc.
 is another way to "simplify".
 KS>  As I see
 KS> it, this then brings  status, and the perception of status into play,
 KS> which is where you're headed too:
 
 Ah... One of the most powerful driving forces in ANY culture.  The "Me"
 status thing. You do know there are some North American cultures where the
 "status" was a "community" thing, don't you? Do you think the "mainstream
 culture" would be better off if they concentrated more on the "status" 
think
 cleanliness, livability, etc.) of their community instead of themselves?
 
 KS> for every individual.  Status and respect. I think we get into
 KS> trouble  when we get greedy and forget that other people also
 KS> need/deserve  status/respect.  
 
 Yes.
 KS> I'm lost in thought trying to figure out for myself 
 KS> if this is a right, or if status/respect must be earned.  I tend to 
 KS> think it's a little of both.
 Personnly, I don't equate status with respect. I think status (to a point)
 can be "bought" and I equate it to "power by coercion and/or wealth" but
 respect can only be "earned". Donald Trump has high status in his circle but
 I don't respect him because of many of his attitudes towards Native
 Americans.
 KS> I also tend to think that we get too
 KS> judgemental and cannot accept a difference as just being "different".
 
 Anthropologists will get into discussions of "ethnocentrism" and "cultural
 relativism" at this point and then your head will really hurt! 
 KS> We judge according to right/wrong and good/bad, and have trouble
 KS> accepting levels or degrees of most anything that is "different"
 KS> from our level.
 The problem is... We tend to judge from our own "point-of-view".
 Anthropologists call this "worldview" as in "your view of the world". And...
 That is part of the problem of defining the "mainstream culture". (Back
 to my statement about dogmeat. The _average_ "mainstream culture" would 
hink
 it horrible. I, while personally I would not knowingly kill my family pet 
or
 dinner, don't see anything wrong with eating dogmeat.
 KS> These are very complex issues and I only understand the tiniest
 KS> part of them.
 
 But you're working on them. 
 Jim
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