0n (22 Sep 05) Mike Roberts wrote to Cindy Haglund...

 MR> It all part of being a pack. When a dog is allowed to do certain
 MR> things, it makes him/her as they are pack animals, feel in charge. If
 MR> they feel in charge, they may question authority in other things. I am
 MR> not so sure every little instance in the book is totally necessary,
 MR> but some of those things, especially leading on the leash is not
 MR> really a good idea to allow the dog to do.

 MR> I won't go into it now, My time is short, but will in a day or so. I
 MR> think I spoke of my Newfie to you before, Cindy. Your post reminded me

Yes and I agree some dogs should definitly NOT lead on a leash but
when it's just wee little thing well you got SIZE on your side and
that they know is your advantage no matter if they are ahead or not?
:) My point was not all breeds nor individuals are the same in how
they 'feel in charge' or not and again depending on the situation?

Take my shih tzu for example. He's kinda cat like in some ways.... :)
He asserts himself when he feels a need to otherwise he doesn't care.
Abbie on the other hand tends to dominate him, BUT she knows how the
boss is ...and she knows if she gets too bossy, she's going to be
stopped. (Cosmo I think enjoys this fact. )

 MR> of something I had almost forgot. For I mostly remember his gentle and
 MR> noble ways as that is what he was throughout his adult life. However
 MR> He did grow to be a non fat 185 pounds. When he was a pup, needless to
 MR> say, he still was big. He had a nipping problem. He would nip, nip,
 MR> nip.. and with a mouth that big, he could get a good piece of hand.

 They all like to nip when they're little til you tell them not to and
they really don't know their own size/strength methinks. They know
they get a certain reaction and act accordingly. Abbie knowx not to
nip now.. I always get her a toy when she wants to do that.


 MR> This got way out of hand. He had a good breeder who was an animal
 MR> behaviorist. She made me bring him to obedience school at 12 weeks.
 MR> That did not help, we worked and worked with him ( BTW all her pups
 MR> had to go to school right away or no puppy. ) Vaders fun was to play
 MR> with his littermates once a week. The schooling? Well that went to the
 MR> dogs. 8)

 Some habits become so ingrained they can't be changed. I guess they
really don't understand how we don't want them to do something they
see no harm in, and want to ask 'why not'? I think dogs too have a
streak of stubborn in 'em too.

Cosmo would never fetch a toy even if his life depended on it. (One of
his cat like qualities). he prolly wants to know WHY ON EARTH would I
do that and why don't you do it yourself! You're here to serve ME
hehehe.. (royal dog nature.)

Abbie on the other hand will fetch, shake the toy, bring it to you and
plop it in your lap, sit down and wait for you to throw it. She's all
play. She's a very playful dog.

 MR> I am already running too long, but he had a littermate who also showed

 :) That's okay. This isn't the "only te moderator can do that" echo.
                
 MR> signs of Dominance. He would actually attack his owner at meal time
 MR> and they would have to throw Warm water on the dog to get his

 Dog not trained, human is not in charge. :(  

 MR> attention. Sue(the breeder) told me at the school, to take Vader home
 MR> and every night lay him down and keep him down for 30 minutes. Well
 MR> Vaders 30 minute downs turned into
 MR> Championship Wrestling. He was only about 100lbs then, but I actually
 MR> had to lay across him to keep him down and was not all that


 I love to wrestle... (hehe..) but the authors say never romp with your dog
(0r your kids) because they won't respect you..) It's okay in puppy
hood in order to teach them what NOT to do (like nipping)... but after
that well.. sigh. No romping with the kids.

 MR> successful. But that was the only way to teach him who was dominant.


 Nod. YOU on top means YOU are bos. The dog should NEVER be on top of
you... the experts say.
.......................................

 MR> Male Adult Newfoundland and the male, in his own natural way, taught
 MR> Vader he was not the leader of the Pack, and we had no trouble with
 MR> that dog at all after he came home. Somehow these two littermates had
 MR> something in their disposition which made them think they were the
 MR> dominant one. But a Week with Uncle Pirate, and they were Pups again.


I wonder do you think some dogs will 'share' leadership? I mean one
will be dominant in one area and the other in another? I think Cosmo
and Patches were like that. Cosmo had HIS Spot on the bed and Patches
learned to mind that little rule, but then Cosmo didn't mind when
Patches um ahem ahem mounted him in play... I have this feeling they
were very companionable. Neither were too agressive or lenient toward
the other. They got along very well. Never had to worry about any out
of control behavior between them even when they played. WHen one
wanted to quit the other would back off.

I'll never forget the time when we were visiting my sister. Her
Tibetian Spaniel and Patches got on fine but Csomo was another story.
Yogi and Cosmo got into a couple playful romps (with Patches watching)
that got out of hand. When Cosmo wanted to back off (he gets astmatic
when he plays too much)- and Yogi wouldn't let him, Patches NIPPED Yogi on
the butt. Now there you got big brother lookin' out for his buddy!
Yogi left Cosmo alone after that. They were establishing who the boss
was (between the three of them) and it looks like Patches of all 'people'
won!

 MR> Knowing who was boss even after they came home. Pirate wasn't viscious
 MR> or anything, he was just a large Male, who when put with the two pups,
 MR> let them know who was boss.  We knew we had a problem with Vader when


 MR> I took him out to my brothers, who had a huge mastiff. I did not know
 MR> this and My brother was telling me to keep the pup away from the
 MR> mastiff as this dog doesn't like puppies and had gone after every dog
 MR> in the neighborhood. No sooner was he telling me this ( they had an L
 MR> shaped porch ) when from around the corner I hear a dog yelp. I
 MR> thought Oh No, Vader's Mince meat. We both jumped up and ran around
 MR> the corner and there was this Mastiff on it's back with Vader standing
 MR> over him. I knew then, if he was going to tame a dog that size, we
 MR> were in for trouble. I am glad we took him out there for a week. Best
 MR> thing I ever did for that dog.

 wow!! I hope you and your bro stifled a laugh. I mean oh dearr how we
react does efffect them..  Vadar would love the approval but the
other dog well.. aww... 

cinders

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