The Bill of Rights hasn't been touched. It takes a Constitutional
Amendment to do that.  If there is anything wrong with the Patriot Act,
the courts will set it straight eventually.

I don't think the Islamic fundamentalist radicals will back off, but
those are not the ones we are proposing to fight a war against.  Sure
it's all related, but the issue at hand is Saddam Hussein and his WMD.

I do believe that US policy in the Middle East is flawed and is
responsible for the increase in anti-US sentiment worldwide.

Until we stop blindly supporting Israel (and ignoring Israeli abuse of
the Palestinians), Arabs and Muslims everywhere will continue to hate
us.



--- col sanders  wrote:
> 
> My concerns are that while I don't necessarily fear anything from the
> 
> current administration, weakening the Bill of Rights for future 
> administrations is quite dangerous, if for example we got another 
> Clinton type in office, imagine the danger to those of  us that are
> not 
> secularly mainstream.  The USA Patriot act is bad, ignoring due
> process 
> is bad, the DMCA is bad.   I am still hoping they will have the balls
> to 
> reverse the bad law the first Bush signed regarding "assault
> weapons". 
>  They also need to reopen the streets in DC, the great Coward
> (Clinton) 
> should be the last coward, let DC return to pre-Clinton normalcy.
> 
> Regarding the need to fight a war, let me ask you this, do you really
> 
> believe that the US can do ANYTHING that will met by the radical 
> muslim/arab terrorist groups backing off?  Is that even possible at
> this 
> point?  I don't believe so...  Maybe you do...
> 
> Cherokee wrote:
> 
> >Agreed, people don't HAVE to be searched, it is voluntary (only
> >compulsory if you wish to fly on an airliner). 
> >
> >I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we need to fight a
> war,
> >though it probably will come to that.
> >
> >I don't see why you are frightened by the President's "recent record
> on
> >liberty".  What are you afraid of (specifically)?
> >
> >
> >
> >--- col sanders  wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>We can get into a discussion of how it all started when the great 
> >>Communist FDR blackmailed the supreme court to misinterpret the
> >>Commerce 
> >>Clause, and how that led to the regulation of EVERYTHING including 
> >>airlines and the great loss of freedoms we enjoy today... But why 
> >>over-complicate things.  The airlines are private industry.  They
> are
> >>
> >>regulated, as is EVERYTHING these days.  Americans are STUPID and
> >>need 
> >>to be protected from themselves (not my opinion, the opinion of
> thsoe
> >>in 
> >>power).  People don't *have to be searched* they can ride amtrak if
> >>they 
> >>object so much (for foreigners, thats the train).  Anyway, let not 
> >>confuse things, do we need to fight a war in the middle east,
> >>probably. 
> >> Is the Bush Admin's recent record on liberty frightening, yes. 
> Are
> >>the 
> >>two related, no.  
> >>
> >>Cherokee wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>That is oversimplified.  It is not the airlines mandating the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>searches.
> >>    
> >>
> >>>In fact, the airlines are no longer able to employ their own
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>security
> >>    
> >>
> >>>personnel.  The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is
> the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>new
> >>    
> >>
> >>>government agency handling airport security, and we DO in fact
> have
> >>>less freedom when flying than we used to.
> >>>
> >>>Even so, I say big deal. They are working to protect planes and
> >>>passengers from terrorism. They aren't digging through your
> luggage
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>to
> >>    
> >>
> >>>try to find out if you cheated on your taxes.
> >>>
> >>>--- col sanders  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>Being able to lock your bags on an airplan has nothing
to do with
> 
> >>>>freedom.  Airlines are a private company, and as such they have
> the
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>right to inspect their customers on their private property.
> >>>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>So your saying that ONE SOUL ACT by non-Americans
is enough to
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>take
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>away
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>some of the freedom of Americans..
> >>>>>Does this mean that "IF" these attacks
continue that more
> freedom
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>will be
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>lost ..
> >>>>>Valid Point of View ..
> >>>>>
> >>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>From: "sloppy" 
> >>>>>To: 
> >>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:42 PM
> >>>>>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>We lost that freedom because a group
of "men" took it upon
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>themselves
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>to abuse the system to achieve their goal of
killing American
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>civilians.
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>That's not the
point either ..
> >>>>>>>Talk about
freedom .. what happened to the
> freedom
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>of
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>locking your bags ..
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>When you fly
now bags stay unlocked ..
> >>>>>>>Killing someone
doesnt "Give" freedom either ..
> so
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>you just
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>completely came
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>out and said
something that's just way out there
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>..
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>----- Original
Message -----
> >>>>>>>From:
"Sting" 
> >>>>>>>To:

> >>>>>>>Sent: Saturday,
January 11, 2003 10:11 PM
> >>>>>>>Subject:
[twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >
SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR YOUR FREEDOM!!
> >>>>>>> >
BECAUSE IT"S NOT FREE !!!
> >>>>>>> > Sting
> >>>>>>> > -----
Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> > From:
"<>"
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> > To:

> >>>>>>> > Sent:
Saturday, January 11, 2003 07:27
> >>>>>>> >
Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> >
> I dont think that's his point
> >>>>>>> >
> When it comes down to it you have to
> be
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>able to
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>handle killing someone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> > else
> >>>>>>> >
> just because it's the political thing
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>to
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>do ..
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>If you cant handle that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> > Idea
> >>>>>>> >
> then you shouldnt be in the military
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>(Regardless
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>of position)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > my .02
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> >
> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> >
> From: "pagan" 
> >>>>>>> >
> To: 
> >>>>>>> >
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003
> 12:14
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>PM
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>> >
> Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> >
> >
> >>>>>>> >
> > You would be surprized to know
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>that
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>overwhelming majority of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>service
> >>>>>>> >
> men and women never fire a shot
> outside
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>of basic
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>training or a firing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> > range.
> >>>>>>> >
> In fact, there are more opportunities
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>to
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>save
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>lives or make living
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >
> conditions more habitable than to
> take
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>them.
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Yes, even in an all out war
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >
> situation.
> >>>>>>> >
> >
> >>>>>>> >
> > Pagan
> >>>>>>> >
> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >
> >>>>>>> >
> > >From a message by prestone
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>about
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>Re: OT
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Military:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >
> > > as long as you don't have a
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>problem
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>killing your fellow human
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>beings,
> >>>>>>> > go
> >>>>>>> >
> for it.
> >>>>>>> >
> > >
> >>>>>>> >
> > > >From a message by
> sloppy
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>about OT
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Military:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >
> > > > With an anticipated
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>graduation
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>from college in December, I've
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>been
> >>>>>>> >
> pondering what to do from this point
> on
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>in life.
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>I recently hit upon
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>> >
> idea of the military, was wondering
> if
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>people
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>could offer input, horror
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >
> stories, advice, warnings, etc.
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>Anything
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>would
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>be appreciated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >
> > >
> >>>>>>> >
> > >
> >>>>>>> >
> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>
Help STOP SPAM: Try the new
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>MSN
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>8 and
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>get">http://g.msn.com/8HMEEN/2016">get 2 months
FREE*
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >
> >
> >  
> >

--- FEddy 1.4.03/modPHX