echo:	trade_wars
to:	All
from:	col sanders
date:	2003-01-13 12:08:40
subject:	Re: OT Military
My concerns are that while I don't necessarily fear anything from the current administration, weakening the Bill of Rights for future administrations is quite dangerous, if for example we got another Clinton type in office, imagine the danger to those of us that are not secularly mainstream. The USA Patriot act is bad, ignoring due process is bad, the DMCA is bad. I am still hoping they will have the balls to reverse the bad law the first Bush signed regarding "assault weapons". They also need to reopen the streets in DC, the great Coward (Clinton) should be the last coward, let DC return to pre-Clinton normalcy. Regarding the need to fight a war, let me ask you this, do you really believe that the US can do ANYTHING that will met by the radical muslim/arab terrorist groups backing off? Is that even possible at this point? I don't believe so... Maybe you do... Cherokee wrote: >Agreed, people don't HAVE to be searched, it is voluntary (only >compulsory if you wish to fly on an airliner). > >I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we need to fight a war, >though it probably will come to that. > >I don't see why you are frightened by the President's "recent record on >liberty". What are you afraid of (specifically)? > > > >--- col sanders wrote: > > >>We can get into a discussion of how it all started when the great >>Communist FDR blackmailed the supreme court to misinterpret the >>Commerce >>Clause, and how that led to the regulation of EVERYTHING including >>airlines and the great loss of freedoms we enjoy today... But why >>over-complicate things. The airlines are private industry. They are >> >>regulated, as is EVERYTHING these days. Americans are STUPID and >>need >>to be protected from themselves (not my opinion, the opinion of thsoe >>in >>power). People don't have to be searched they can ride amtrak if >>they >>object so much (for foreigners, thats the train). Anyway, let not >>confuse things, do we need to fight a war in the middle east, >>probably. >> Is the Bush Admin's recent record on liberty frightening, yes. Are >>the >>two related, no. >> >>Cherokee wrote: >> >> >> >>>That is oversimplified. It is not the airlines mandating the >>> >>> >>searches. >> >> >>>In fact, the airlines are no longer able to employ their own >>> >>> >>security >> >> >>>personnel. The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is the >>> >>> >>new >> >> >>>government agency handling airport security, and we DO in fact have >>>less freedom when flying than we used to. >>> >>>Even so, I say big deal. They are working to protect planes and >>>passengers from terrorism. They aren't digging through your luggage >>> >>> >>to >> >> >>>try to find out if you cheated on your taxes. >>> >>>--- col sanders wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Being able to lock your bags on an airplan has nothing to do with >>>>freedom. Airlines are a private company, and as such they have the >>>> >>>> >>>>right to inspect their customers on their private property. >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>So your saying that ONE SOUL ACT by non-Americans is enough to >>>>> >>>>> >>take >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>away >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>some of the freedom of Americans.. >>>>>Does this mean that "IF" these attacks continue that more freedom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>will be >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>lost .. >>>>>Valid Point of View .. >>>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "sloppy" >>>>>To: >>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:42 PM >>>>>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>We lost that freedom because a group of "men" took it upon >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>themselves >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>to abuse the system to achieve their goal of killing American >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>civilians. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That's not the point either .. >>>>>>>Talk about freedom .. what happened to the freedom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>of >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>locking your bags .. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>When you fly now bags stay unlocked .. >>>>>>>Killing someone doesnt "Give" freedom either .. so >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>you just >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>completely came >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>out and said something that's just way out there >>>>>> >>>>>> >>.. >> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Sting" >>>>>>>To: >>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:11 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR YOUR FREEDOM!! >>>>>>> > BECAUSE IT"S NOT FREE !!! >>>>>>> > Sting >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: "<>" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> > To: >>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 07:27 >>>>>>> > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > I dont think that's his point >>>>>>> > > When it comes down to it you have to be >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>able to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>handle killing someone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > else >>>>>>> > > just because it's the political thing >>>>>> >>>>>> >>to >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>do .. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>If you cant handle that >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > Idea >>>>>>> > > then you shouldnt be in the military >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>(Regardless >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>of position) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > my .02 >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > > From: "pagan" >>>>>>> > > To: >>>>>>> > > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 12:14 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>PM >> >> >>>>>>> > > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > You would be surprized to know >>>>>> >>>>>> >>that >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>overwhelming majority of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>service >>>>>>> > > men and women never fire a shot outside >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>of basic >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>training or a firing >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > range. >>>>>>> > > In fact, there are more opportunities >>>>>> >>>>>> >>to >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>save >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>lives or make living >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > conditions more habitable than to take >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Yes, even in an all out war >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > situation. >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > Pagan >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >From a message by prestone >>>>>> >>>>>> >>about >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>Re: OT >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Military: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > > > as long as you don't have a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>problem >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>killing your fellow human >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>beings, >>>>>>> > go >>>>>>> > > for it. >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >From a message by sloppy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>about OT >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Military: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > > > > With an anticipated >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>graduation >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>from college in December, I've >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>been >>>>>>> > > pondering what to do from this point on >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>in life. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>I recently hit upon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>the >>>>>>> > > idea of the military, was wondering if >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>people >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>could offer input, horror >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > stories, advice, warnings, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>Anything >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>would >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>be appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Help STOP SPAM: Try the new >>>>>> >>>>>> >>MSN >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>8 and >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>get">http://g.msn.com/8HMEEN/2016">get 2 months FREE* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > --- FEddy 1.4.03/modPHX * Origin: http://www.twgs.org -- THE Trade Wars web forum! (1:229/522.0) SEEN-BY: 633/267 270 @PATH: 229/522 2000 379/1 633/267
SOURCE: echomail via fidonet.ozzmosis.com

>>>>>> >>>>>>We lost that freedom because a group of "men" took it upon >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>themselves >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>to abuse the system to achieve their goal of killing American >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>civilians. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That's not the point either .. >>>>>>>Talk about freedom .. what happened to the freedom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>of >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>locking your bags .. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>When you fly now bags stay unlocked .. >>>>>>>Killing someone doesnt "Give" freedom either .. so >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>you just >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>completely came >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>out and said something that's just way out there >>>>>> >>>>>> >>.. >> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Sting" >>>>>>>To: >>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:11 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR YOUR FREEDOM!! >>>>>>> > BECAUSE IT"S NOT FREE !!! >>>>>>> > Sting >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: "<>" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> > To: >>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 07:27 >>>>>>> > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > I dont think that's his point >>>>>>> > > When it comes down to it you have to be >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>able to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>handle killing someone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > else >>>>>>> > > just because it's the political thing >>>>>> >>>>>> >>to >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>do .. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>If you cant handle that >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > Idea >>>>>>> > > then you shouldnt be in the military >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>(Regardless >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>of position) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > my .02 >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > > From: "pagan" >>>>>>> > > To: >>>>>>> > > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 12:14 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>PM >> >> >>>>>>> > > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > You would be surprized to know >>>>>> >>>>>> >>that >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>overwhelming majority of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>service >>>>>>> > > men and women never fire a shot outside >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>of basic >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>training or a firing >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > range. >>>>>>> > > In fact, there are more opportunities >>>>>> >>>>>> >>to >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>save >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>lives or make living >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > conditions more habitable than to take >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Yes, even in an all out war >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > situation. >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > Pagan >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >From a message by prestone >>>>>> >>>>>> >>about >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>Re: OT >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Military: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > > > as long as you don't have a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>problem >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>killing your fellow human >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>beings, >>>>>>> > go >>>>>>> > > for it. >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >From a message by sloppy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>about OT >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Military: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > > > > With an anticipated >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>graduation >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>from college in December, I've >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>been >>>>>>> > > pondering what to do from this point on >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>in life. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>I recently hit upon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>the >>>>>>> > > idea of the military, was wondering if >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>people >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>could offer input, horror >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > stories, advice, warnings, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>Anything >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>would >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>be appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>
Help STOP SPAM: Try the new >>>>>> >>>>>> >>MSN >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>8 and >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>get">http://g.msn.com/8HMEEN/2016">get 2 months FREE* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > --- FEddy 1.4.03/modPHX