I think there is some discrimination in the justice system, but I
believe the high proportion of minorities in prison is really more
economic.  Minorities have a higher tendency to be poor, probably as a
result of economic discrimination and educational discrimination. Poor
economic prospects lead to a life of crime.

--- The Mad Hatter  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Note the words "Fair and Equitable." The problem in Canada and the
> United States is that the justice systems are not fair and equitable.
> 
> An evidence of that is the disproportionate number of black,
> hispanic, and native males who are jailed in both countries.
> 
> The Mad Hatter
>  
> 
> >From a message by Cherokee about Re: [twgsdotorg]:
> > Execution certainly does accomplish something.  It removes the
> possibility of that person ever killing, or raping, or kidnapping
> anyone ever again. Life in prison does NOT accomplish this.
> 
> You believe that a US Soldier killing an Iraqi soldier is OK because
> this is some sort of preemptive defensive attack and somehow defends
> our country, but killing a convicted murderer/rapist/kidnapper is not
> OK.  You are full of contradictions.
> 
> Last I checked, you have no authority to decide whether I can be a
> Christian and still support the death penalty.
> 
> Baptist & Reflector—June 21, 2000 
> Resolution No. 5 On Capital Punishment
> 
> WHEREAS, The Bible teaches that every human life has sacred value
> (Genesis 1:27) and forbids the taking of innocent human life (Exodus
> 20:13); and
> 
> WHEREAS, God has vested in the civil magistrate the responsibility of
> protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty (Romans 13:1-3); and
> 
> WHEREAS, We recognize that fallen human nature has made impossible a
> perfect judicial system; and
> 
> WHEREAS, God authorized capital punishment for murder after the
> Noahic
> Flood, validating its legitimacy in human society (Genesis 9:6); and
> 
> WHEREAS, God forbids personal revenge (Romans 12:19) and has
> established capital punishment as a just and appropriate means by
> which
> the civil magistrate may punish those guilty of capital crimes
> (Romans
> 13:4); and
> 
> WHEREAS, God requires proof of guilt before any punishment is
> administered (Deuteronomy 19:15-19); and
> 
> WHEREAS, God’s instructions require a civil magistrate to judge all
> people equally under the law, regardless of class or status
> (Leviticus
> 19:15; Deuteronomy 1:17); and
> 
> WHEREAS, All people, including those guilty of capital crimes, are
> created in the image of God and should be treated with dignity
> (Genesis
> 1:27).
> 
> Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern
> Baptist
> Convention, meeting in Orlando, Florida, June 13-14, 2000, support
> the
> fair and equitable use of capital punishment by civil magistrates as
> a
> legitimate form of punishment for those guilty of murder or
> treasonous
> acts that result in death; and
> 
> Be it further RESOLVED, That we urge that capital punishment be
> administered only when the pursuit of truth and justice result in
> clear
> and overwhelming evidence of guilt; and
> 
> Be it further RESOLVED, That because of our deep reverence for human
> life, our profound respect for the rights of individuals, and our
> respect for the law, we call for vigilance, justice, and equity in
> the
> criminal justice system; and
> 
> Be it further RESOLVED, That we urge that capital punishment be
> applied
> as justly and as fairly as possible without undue delay, without
> reference to the race, class, or status of the guilty; and
> 
> Be it further RESOLVED, That we call on civil magistrates to use
> humane
> means in administering capital punishment; and
> 
> Be it finally RESOLVED, That we commit ourselves to love, to pray
> for,
> and to minister the Gospel to victims and perpetrators of crimes,
> realizing that only in Christ is there forgiveness of sin,
> reconciliation, emotional and spiritual healing, and the gift of
> eternal life.
>  
> 
> 
> 
> --- col sanders  wrote:
> > 
> > The state should not be in the business of premeditated killing. 
> (I 
> > would use the term murder, but murder is defined as "unlawful"
> > killing). 
> >  Execution accomplishes nothing.  Killing is only forgivable (not
> OK,
> > 
> > but forgivable) when its done in self defense.  There is no way you
> > can 
> > argue execution is self defense.  You can try the deterrent
> argument,
> > 
> > but that obviously doesn't work.  Murders are not rational people
> > that 
> > can be deterred.  Self defense killing is in the heat of the moment
> > when 
> > your life is in peril (or in the case of a war where you are
> > DEFENDING, 
> > defence of course can involve preemptive strikes and such, thats
> > another 
> > huge topic though).  The general point being that, it is not
> morally 
> > acceptable for the state to engage in behavior that it imprisons
> and 
> > executes people for, meaning premeditated killing.
> > 
> > Even if you disagree with that basic moral premise, which you
> cannot
> > do 
> > if you are a Christian (see the commandments and rest of the
> bible), 
> > then Hatter's arguement about it not being applied properly and
> such
> > can 
> > be used.  The simple fact that innocent people are/have been
> executed
> > 
> > and/or placed on death row should be enough to stop all executions.
> 
> >  Executions are not needed to accomplish anything.  Life in prison 
> > accomplishes it for us.
> > 
> > Col Sanders
> > 
> > Cherokee wrote:
> > 
> > >Assuming that everything you say is correct, and for the sake of
> > >argument I will grant that, then the problem is still not the
> death
> > >penalty.  The problem is a justice system that does not provide
> > >adequate defense for poor defendants, and corrupt police willing
> to
> > >torture suspects to obtain false confessions. I would be all for
> any
> > >type of reform that increased the accuracy of our justice system.
> > >
> > >Death penalty opponents always use the scenario of the "innocent
> > death
> > >row inmate" to try to argue against the penalty. I'm sur this
> > happens
> > >occasionally, but I believe it is far less frequent than death
> > penalty
> > >opponents claim. 
> > >
> > >But what about the truly guilty?  Do you think those who are truly
> > >guilty of capital crimes should be put to death?  If you answer
> > "no",
> > >then you should explain why the death penalty in general is wrong,
> > >rather than relying on the old "an innocent person could die"
> > argument.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- The Mad Hatter  wrote:
> > >  
> > >
> > >>
> > >>Check CNN, MSNBC, Nytimes.com, etc., all of the major news sites
> > >>covered it.
> > >>
> > >>And yes, these people were innocent. Through DNA testing (which
> was
> > >>not available when many of them were convicted), research, etc.
> the
> > >>convictions were overturned, and in several cases the real
> > >>perpetrator was convicted.
> > >>
> > >>8 of the convictions were obtained by confessions that were
> > extracted
> > >>under torture. The officer who obtained those convictions has
> been
> > >>removed from the police department, however he has not as yet
> been
> > >>jailed (I was unable to even find reference to him being
> charged).
> > >>
> > >>The Criminal Justice systems of both Canada and the United States
> > >>have errored with great regularity. A conviction in a court of
> > either
> > >>country does not mean that you are guilty, it often means that
> you
> > >>could not afford a good lawyer. Harsh but true.
> > >>
> > >>What is really scarey about this is that you stand a better
> chance
> > of
> > >>getting justice in Canada or the United States (even with all the
> > >>faults of both systems) than you do almost anywhere else.
> > >>
> > >>The Mad Hatter
> > >>
> > >>>From a message by Cherokee about Re: [twgsdotorg]:
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>I would like to know the source of your statistics, in
> particular
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>the
> > >>23 Illinois men who were "innocent".
> > >>
> > >>These cases are almost NEVER cases of truly innocent men being
> > >>convicted, sentenced to death, and then exonerated. Rather, they
> > are
> > >>usually cases in which some legal technicality allowed the men to
> > go
> > >>free. In every such case, the body of evidence was enough to
> > convince
> > >>a
> > >>jury of reasonable people beyond a reasonable doubt, that the
> > >>defendant
> > >>was guilty.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--- The Mad Hatter  wrote:
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>There are three good reasons that the Death Penalty is a dead
> > issue
> > >>>in Canada. The Killer M's, David Millgard, Donald Marshall, and
> > Guy
> > >>>Paul Morin.
> > >>>
> > >>>All three of these gentlemen were convicted of murder, all
> > >>>exonerated.
> > >>>
> > >>>For those who say it couldn't happen in the USA, I suggest you
> > look
> > >>>at Illinois where in the last 10 years 23 inmates who were on
> > death
> > >>>row were later found innocent.
> > >>>
> > >>>The point of this being (for both Sanders and Cherokee who seem
> > >>>unable to find it) is that government is best kept starved and
> > >>>inoffensive, so that it cannot interfere with the lives of the
> > >>>citizens. All governments should be kept this way - consider
> > Saddam
> > >>>Hussein if his government was defanged. He'd end up
looking like
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>the
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>Stay-Pufft Marshmellow Man.
> > >>>
> > >>>Government is not he solution to the problem - it is the
> problem.
> > >>>
> > >>>The only good politician is a dead one (they don't
raise taxes).
> > >>>
> > >>>The best government is the least government, and the least
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>government
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >>>is no government at all.
> > >>>
> > >>>Taxation is theft.
> > >>>
> > >>>Why is the U.S. Government so hard on the Mafia? They
don't like
> > >>>competition.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>The Mad Hatter - Radical to the Bone
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>from a message by col sanders about Re: OT Military:
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>>>No, I just don't find very many offenses worthy
of execution.
> > >>>>        
> > >>>>
> > >>>Cherokee wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>>>So violating the law is ok as long as it results
in something
> > >>>>productive?
> > >>>>        
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>      
> > >>>
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> 
>

--- FEddy 1.4.03/modPHX