Note the words "Fair and Equitable." The problem in Canada and
the United States is that the justice systems are not fair and equitable.

An evidence of that is the disproportionate number of black, hispanic, and
native males who are jailed in both countries.

The Mad Hatter
 

>From a message by Cherokee about Re: [twgsdotorg]:
> Execution certainly does accomplish something.  It removes the
possibility of that person ever killing, or raping, or kidnapping
anyone ever again. Life in prison does NOT accomplish this.

You believe that a US Soldier killing an Iraqi soldier is OK because
this is some sort of preemptive defensive attack and somehow defends
our country, but killing a convicted murderer/rapist/kidnapper is not
OK.  You are full of contradictions.

Last I checked, you have no authority to decide whether I can be a
Christian and still support the death penalty.

Baptist & Reflector—June 21, 2000 
Resolution No. 5 On Capital Punishment

WHEREAS, The Bible teaches that every human life has sacred value
(Genesis 1:27) and forbids the taking of innocent human life (Exodus
20:13); and

WHEREAS, God has vested in the civil magistrate the responsibility of
protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty (Romans 13:1-3); and

WHEREAS, We recognize that fallen human nature has made impossible a
perfect judicial system; and

WHEREAS, God authorized capital punishment for murder after the Noahic
Flood, validating its legitimacy in human society (Genesis 9:6); and

WHEREAS, God forbids personal revenge (Romans 12:19) and has
established capital punishment as a just and appropriate means by which
the civil magistrate may punish those guilty of capital crimes (Romans
13:4); and

WHEREAS, God requires proof of guilt before any punishment is
administered (Deuteronomy 19:15-19); and

WHEREAS, God’s instructions require a civil magistrate to judge all
people equally under the law, regardless of class or status (Leviticus
19:15; Deuteronomy 1:17); and

WHEREAS, All people, including those guilty of capital crimes, are
created in the image of God and should be treated with dignity (Genesis
1:27).

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist
Convention, meeting in Orlando, Florida, June 13-14, 2000, support the
fair and equitable use of capital punishment by civil magistrates as a
legitimate form of punishment for those guilty of murder or treasonous
acts that result in death; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we urge that capital punishment be
administered only when the pursuit of truth and justice result in clear
and overwhelming evidence of guilt; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That because of our deep reverence for human
life, our profound respect for the rights of individuals, and our
respect for the law, we call for vigilance, justice, and equity in the
criminal justice system; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we urge that capital punishment be applied
as justly and as fairly as possible without undue delay, without
reference to the race, class, or status of the guilty; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we call on civil magistrates to use humane
means in administering capital punishment; and

Be it finally RESOLVED, That we commit ourselves to love, to pray for,
and to minister the Gospel to victims and perpetrators of crimes,
realizing that only in Christ is there forgiveness of sin,
reconciliation, emotional and spiritual healing, and the gift of
eternal life.
 



--- col sanders  wrote:
> 
> The state should not be in the business of premeditated killing.  (I 
> would use the term murder, but murder is defined as "unlawful"
> killing). 
>  Execution accomplishes nothing.  Killing is only forgivable (not OK,
> 
> but forgivable) when its done in self defense.  There is no way you
> can 
> argue execution is self defense.  You can try the deterrent argument,
> 
> but that obviously doesn't work.  Murders are not rational people
> that 
> can be deterred.  Self defense killing is in the heat of the moment
> when 
> your life is in peril (or in the case of a war where you are
> DEFENDING, 
> defence of course can involve preemptive strikes and such, thats
> another 
> huge topic though).  The general point being that, it is not morally 
> acceptable for the state to engage in behavior that it imprisons and 
> executes people for, meaning premeditated killing.
> 
> Even if you disagree with that basic moral premise, which you cannot
> do 
> if you are a Christian (see the commandments and rest of the bible), 
> then Hatter's arguement about it not being applied properly and such
> can 
> be used.  The simple fact that innocent people are/have been executed
> 
> and/or placed on death row should be enough to stop all executions. 
>  Executions are not needed to accomplish anything.  Life in prison 
> accomplishes it for us.
> 
> Col Sanders
> 
> Cherokee wrote:
> 
> >Assuming that everything you say is correct, and for the sake of
> >argument I will grant that, then the problem is still not the death
> >penalty.  The problem is a justice system that does not provide
> >adequate defense for poor defendants, and corrupt police willing to
> >torture suspects to obtain false confessions. I would be all for any
> >type of reform that increased the accuracy of our justice system.
> >
> >Death penalty opponents always use the scenario of the "innocent
> death
> >row inmate" to try to argue against the penalty. I'm sur this
> happens
> >occasionally, but I believe it is far less frequent than death
> penalty
> >opponents claim. 
> >
> >But what about the truly guilty?  Do you think those who are truly
> >guilty of capital crimes should be put to death?  If you answer
> "no",
> >then you should explain why the death penalty in general is wrong,
> >rather than relying on the old "an innocent person could die"
> argument.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- The Mad Hatter  wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>
> >>Check CNN, MSNBC, Nytimes.com, etc., all of the major news sites
> >>covered it.
> >>
> >>And yes, these people were innocent. Through DNA testing (which was
> >>not available when many of them were convicted), research, etc. the
> >>convictions were overturned, and in several cases the real
> >>perpetrator was convicted.
> >>
> >>8 of the convictions were obtained by confessions that were
> extracted
> >>under torture. The officer who obtained those convictions has been
> >>removed from the police department, however he has not as yet been
> >>jailed (I was unable to even find reference to him being charged).
> >>
> >>The Criminal Justice systems of both Canada and the United States
> >>have errored with great regularity. A conviction in a court of
> either
> >>country does not mean that you are guilty, it often means that you
> >>could not afford a good lawyer. Harsh but true.
> >>
> >>What is really scarey about this is that you stand a better chance
> of
> >>getting justice in Canada or the United States (even with all the
> >>faults of both systems) than you do almost anywhere else.
> >>
> >>The Mad Hatter
> >>
> >>>From a message by Cherokee about Re: [twgsdotorg]:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>I would like to know the source of your statistics, in particular
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>the
> >>23 Illinois men who were "innocent".
> >>
> >>These cases are almost NEVER cases of truly innocent men being
> >>convicted, sentenced to death, and then exonerated. Rather, they
> are
> >>usually cases in which some legal technicality allowed the men to
> go
> >>free. In every such case, the body of evidence was enough to
> convince
> >>a
> >>jury of reasonable people beyond a reasonable doubt, that the
> >>defendant
> >>was guilty.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--- The Mad Hatter  wrote:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>
> >>>There are three good reasons that the Death Penalty is a dead
> issue
> >>>in Canada. The Killer M's, David Millgard, Donald Marshall, and
> Guy
> >>>Paul Morin.
> >>>
> >>>All three of these gentlemen were convicted of murder, all
> >>>exonerated.
> >>>
> >>>For those who say it couldn't happen in the USA, I suggest you
> look
> >>>at Illinois where in the last 10 years 23 inmates who were on
> death
> >>>row were later found innocent.
> >>>
> >>>The point of this being (for both Sanders and Cherokee who seem
> >>>unable to find it) is that government is best kept starved and
> >>>inoffensive, so that it cannot interfere with the lives of the
> >>>citizens. All governments should be kept this way - consider
> Saddam
> >>>Hussein if his government was defanged. He'd end up looking like
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>the
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Stay-Pufft Marshmellow Man.
> >>>
> >>>Government is not he solution to the problem - it is the problem.
> >>>
> >>>The only good politician is a dead one (they don't raise taxes).
> >>>
> >>>The best government is the least government, and the least
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>government
> >>    
> >>
> >>>is no government at all.
> >>>
> >>>Taxation is theft.
> >>>
> >>>Why is the U.S. Government so hard on the Mafia? They don't like
> >>>competition.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The Mad Hatter - Radical to the Bone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>from a message by col sanders about Re: OT Military:
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>No, I just don't find very many offenses worthy of execution.
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>Cherokee wrote:
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>So violating the law is ok as long as it results in something
> >>>>productive?
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >  
> >



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