I am agreeing with your first statement, and then suggesting that 
perhaps it should be made legal to come across and pick oranges, again, 
fixing the border issues.

Cherokee wrote:

>I am simply arguing that our border security sucks and should be
fixed.peeding tickets.

--- ">"  wrote:
> 
> I have seen it happen alot ( I Have never received a DWI or anything
> of that
> nature ) but I have happy given my speeding ticket to someone and had
> it
> just "removed" .. That was a State of Louisiana Speeding ticket so I
> know
> that it happens in at least 1/50th of the states ;) .. I have heard
> stories
> of the police really pinning things on people just because they dont
> like
> them .. or even worse .. because they were asked
WHEfind something
> against
> the person .. I am sure that it goes on through every level of
> government
> and probably doesn't cease until there are no more levels to go
> through ..
> Would it include murder .. Yea .. Speedy Trial with a conviction ..
> Yea .. I
> am not saying the legal system is fully corrupt .. But I have seen
> alot of
> "little" things get bent and it makes the big things seem not so
> improbable
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cherokee" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:59 PM
> Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: [twgsdotorg]
> 
> 
> >
> > No, I've never gotten out of a speeding ticket or a DWI.  I've
> received
> > 5 speeding tickets, all of them deserved and paid for, and never
> been
> > charged with a DWI (probably attributable to the fact I don't
> drink,
> > and even were I to impair myself with alcohol, I certainly wouldn't
> > drive directly afterwards).
> >
> > --- ">"
 wrote:
> > >
> > > I for one know the police system is corrupt ;)
> > > Ever got out of a speeding ticket or a DWI ..
> > > Same thing (MUCH SMALLER SCALE) but both happen regulary
> > > As for is Death penatly right or wrong ..
> > > I think alot of tha depends on Where U were born and how U were
> > > raised ;)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cherokee" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:38 PM
> > > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: [twgsdotorg]
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Assuming that everything you say is correct, and for the sake
> of
> > > > argument I will grant that, then the problem is still not the
> death
> > > > penalty.  The problem is a justice system that does not provide
> > > > adequate defense for poor defendants, and corrupt police
> willing to
> > > > torture suspects to obtain false confessions. I would be all
> for
> > > any
> > > > type of reform that increased the accuracy of our justice
> system.
> > > >
> > > > Death penalty opponents always use the scenario of the
> "innocent
> > > death
> > > > row inmate" to try to argue against the penalty.
I'm sur this
> > > happens
> > > > occasionally, but I believe it is far less frequent than death
> > > penalty
> > > > opponents claim.
> > > >
> > > > But what about the truly guilty?  Do you think those who are
> truly
> > > > guilty of capital crimes should be put to death?  If you answer
> > > "no",
> > > > then you should explain why the death penalty in general is
> wrong,
> > > > rather than relying on the old "an innocent person
could die"
> > > argument.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- The Mad Hatter  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Check CNN, MSNBC, Nytimes.com, etc., all of the major news
> sites
> > > > > covered it.
> > > > >
> > > > > And yes, these people were innocent. Through DNA testing
> (which
> > > was
> > > > > not available when many of them were convicted), research,
> etc.
> > > the
> > > > > convictions were overturned, and in several cases the real
> > > > > perpetrator was convicted.
> > > > >
> > > > > 8 of the convictions were obtained by confessions that were
> > > extracted
> > > > > under torture. The officer who obtained those
convictions has
> > > been
> > > > > removed from the police department, however he has
not as yet
> > > been
> > > > > jailed (I was unable to even find reference to him being
> > > charged).
> > > > >
> > > > > The Criminal Justice systems of both Canada and the United
> States
> > > > > have errored with great regularity. A conviction in a court
> of
> > > either
> > > > > country does not mean that you are guilty, it often means
> that
> > > you
> > > > > could not afford a good lawyer. Harsh but true.
> > > > >
> > > > > What is really scarey about this is that you stand a better
> > > chance of
> > > > > getting justice in Canada or the United States
(even with all
> the
> > > > > faults of both systems) than you do almost anywhere else.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Mad Hatter
> > > > >
> > > > > >From a message by Cherokee about Re: [twgsdotorg]:
> > > > > > I would like to know the source of your statistics, in
> > > particular
> > > > > the
> > > > > 23 Illinois men who were "innocent".
> > > > >
> > > > > These cases are almost NEVER cases of truly innocent men
> being
> > > > > convicted, sentenced to death, and then exonerated. Rather,
> they
> > > are
> > > > > usually cases in which some legal technicality allowed the
> men to
> > > go
> > > > > free. In every such case, the body of evidence was enough to
> > > convince
> > > > > a
> > > > > jury of reasonable people beyond a reasonable
doubt, that the
> > > > > defendant
> > > > > was guilty.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- The Mad Hatter  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are three good reasons that the Death
Penalty is a
> dead
> > > issue
> > > > > > in Canada. The Killer M's, David Millgard,
Donald Marshall,
> and
> > > Guy
> > > > > > Paul Morin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All three of these gentlemen were convicted
of murder, all
> > > > > > exonerated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For those who say it couldn't happen in the
USA, I suggest
> you
> > > look
> > > > > > at Illinois where in the last 10 years 23
inmates who were
> on
> > > death
> > > > > > row were later found innocent.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The point of this being (for both Sanders and
Cherokee who
> seem
> > > > > > unable to find it) is that government is best
kept starved
> and
> > > > > > inoffensive, so that it cannot interfere with
the lives of
> the
> > > > > > citizens. All governments should be kept this way -
> consider
> > > Saddam
> > > > > > Hussein if his government was defanged. He'd
end up looking
> > > like
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Stay-Pufft Marshmellow Man.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Government is not he solution to the problem
- it is the
> > > problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only good politician is a dead one (they
don't raise
> > > taxes).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The best government is the least government,
and the least
> > > > > government
> > > > > > is no government at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Taxation is theft.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why is the U.S. Government so hard on the
Mafia? They don't
> > > like
> > > > > > competition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Mad Hatter - Radical to the Bone
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >from a message by col sanders about Re:
OT Military:
> > > > > > > No, I just don't find very many offenses worthy of
> execution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cherokee wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >So violating the law is ok as long as it results in
> something
> > > > > > >productive?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >

--- FEddy 1.4.03/modPHX