*** Quoting Cindy Haglund from a message to Mike Roberts ***

 CH> Yes and I agree some dogs should definitly NOT lead on a leash but
 CH> when it's just wee little thing well you got SIZE on your side and
 CH> that they know is your advantage no matter if they are ahead or not?

You're probably right, but I think what the purpose of these authors and some 
trainers might be, is to teach the dog from the get go, who is the boss and 
this is a common way. This way no room is left for the dog to wonder why he 
can be leader in certain things and not in others. Kinda like the mother who 
stands there and tells the kid I'll swat ya, then lets the kid get away with 
murder and the next time she's in a bad mood, she clobbers him for the 
slightest thing.

 CH> Abbie on the other hand tends to dominate him, BUT she knows how the
 CH> boss is ...and she knows if she gets too bossy, she's going to be
 CH> stopped. (Cosmo I think enjoys this fact. )

I think thats the key. You said "she knows"

 CH> They all like to nip when they're little til you tell them not to
 CH> and they really don't know their own size/strength methinks. They

That was my problem, no matter how hard you tried, He would NOT stop. He 
thought he was the boss.

 CH> of his cat like qualities). he prolly wants to know WHY ON EARTH
 CH> would I do that and why don't you do it yourself! You're here to

Heheheheh!

 CH> Dog not trained, human is not in charge. :(

Exactly dog was Boss.

 CH> I love to wrestle... (hehe..) but the authors say never romp with
 CH> your dog (0r your kids) because they won't respect you..) It's okay
 CH> in puppy hood in order toteach them what NOT to do (like nipping)...
 CH> but after that well.. sigh. No romping with the kids.

It definitely was not a romping or playful thing. It was a real struggle. He, 
in his mind was in charge, and to teach him he wasn't. I had to hold him 
down, preferably on his back. It was real tough.

 CH> I wonder do you think some dogs will 'share' leadership? I mean one
 CH> will be dominant in one area and the other in another? I think Cosmo
 CH> and Patches were like that. Cosmo had HIS Spot on the bed and Patches
 CH> learned to mind that little rule, but then Cosmo didn't mind when
 CH> Patches um ahem ahem mounted him in play... I have this feeling they
 CH> were very companionable. Neither were too agressive or lenient toward
 CH> the other. They got along very well. Never had to worry about any out
 CH> of control behavior between them even when they played. WHen one
 CH> wanted to quit the other would back off.

I dunno, there are probably certain things that don't matter, kind of like 
the leash thing you spoke about above. Just guessing here, but if you have 
already shown your dog you are leader of the pack, the rest might just fall 
into place as they are lower members of the pack. Like my two. totally 
opposite. Barney is a toy breed ( though I'll admit a little hefty ) Bam Bam 
is a Giant breed. they'll eat of the same plate, romp and play like they are 
the same size. Never fights or scuffles. The little one will initiate play as 
well as the big one. In a way, you'd think because of the difference in size 
that there would be a difference in the pecking order. I don't see it. But 
since they were young, had always been treated equally. Also, if one gets a 
snack, the other does. Both get fed at same time, so there isn't or hasn't 
been much competition over the years.

 CH> Patches NIPPED Yogi on the butt. Now there you got big brother
 CH> lookin' out for his buddy! Yogileft Cosmo alone after that. They were
 CH> establishing who the boss was (between the three of them) and it

Isn't it amazing the way they do that? Same way the way the dogs watch out 
for the kids. When we lived in apartments there was a doberman that lived in 
the end townhouse. Everyone in his block of apartments were his pack. When 
kids cam over to play with the kids next door. If one of the visitors got a 
little rough, the dobe woould go knock him on his butt. Dogs are very 
protective of their own.

 CH> wow!! I hope you and your bro stifled a laugh. I mean oh dearr how
 CH> we react does efffect them..  Vadar would love the approval but

I honestly thought it was Vader who was the goner. So did my brother. I kinda 
just remember a sigh of relief that nothing serious had happened.


Though I snicker today, 8-) Back then it wasn't funny.

Have a good one!
Mike

... I'm working on my 2nd $million...  Gave up on the 1st.

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL