Hello Jay!
Sunday October 27 1996 00:41, Jay Hanig wrote to Derek A. Bailey:
 JH> How can I?  I can't, if there are no family controls present.  What I 
an
 JH> do is refuse to rent them equipment unless they come in with an adult
 JH> diver, preferably one of their parents.
In general I would hazard a guess that most 12-14year olds would not be able 
to afford to rent gear so thier parents would more than likely have to pay 
for it so I guess in that respect the Adult C-card holder method would work.
 JH> Of course you could.  However, in all the years I've been diving, I've 
yet
 JH> to meet the uncertified diver who owned his own compressor.
I was just playing the devils advocate. In reality I am in agreement with 
u.
 JH>   Uncertified diver deaths hurt all of us.
I couldn't agree more.
 JH>   The headlines always read, "Diver Drowns In
 JH> Cave", not "Untrained Person Dies Using Borrowed Equipment".  Our
 JH> illustrious legislators see headlines like that and rush to restrict our
 JH> sport.  Thanks a lot, Joe Moron.
Exactly. This is even more true these days where special intrest groups rush 
in to prevent accidents in everything at the slightest hint of a problem.
 DB>> So in my opinion a "Junior C-card" is also bogus. Either you are
 DB>> certified or your not. Why would an adult with a c-card make any
 DB>> difference to a diver regardless of age?
 JH> Around here, you have to travel to dive.  Very few 12 year olds drive.
 JH> They can't get to the dive site without cooperation from adults.
Ahh...Good point!  You see, I live here in Vancouver, British Columbia where
you could basicly walk out your front door to a dive sight. Very little 
traveling required to find a nice dive sight.
 JH> I have a big patch on my dive jacket that says "PADI Master Instructor".
And I'll bet you display it proudly. I myself, although I have been diving 
avidly for years, only hold an Advanced ticket. I am only now furthering my 
technical training. This season I am going to take my rescue diver training, 
and next week I am taking my EANx training. A good friend of mine is an 
instuctor and we'll be starting next friday. I do however have my First Aid 
ticket, and once while diving just outside Seattle did Save one of my friends 
life while diving.
It was a real wake up call for me in realizing that proper training is 
essential. Hopefully you never need it, but if and when you do, you have the 
knowledge and skill to perform calmly while in a tense situation. People's 
lives may depend on it.
 JH> The places that I usually do business with never ask for a C-Card.  I 
have
 JH> been carded more times than I can count in the Keys (where I don't go 
very
 JH> often). I have *never* gotten on a dive shop dive boat that didn't 
require
 JH> everybody to flash the card before they were allowed a spot.  That's in
 JH> more than 20 years of diving.
Very strange....Or perhaps not from your point of view, and I suspect the 
point of view of many.
Although 95% of my diving has been non-charter diving, I have been on some 
charters, And have rarely been asked for a C-card (and never for a tank fill 
that I can remember) . Don't get me wrong, I feel these people should be 
asking for C-cards for thier own insurance, but truthfully I have rarely been 
asked to show mine. Although I was never put off by having to show it.
 DB>> for 15years, and have Never, not even once been asked to show my
 DB>> C-card before they would fill my tanks. They always check for current
 DB>> Hydro and Vis, but never ask to show my C-card.
 JH> I admit to being guilty of this at times.
Show me a dive store clerk that says they aren't guilty, and You can almost 
bet their a liar. I am sure there may be exceptions but.....
 JH>   When I had a shop, sometimes I
 JH> would talk to a customer for a while before we got around to the 
usiness
 JH> of filling his tanks.  If he talked about diving knowledgeably, I seldom
 JH> would ask for a card.  If I thought he was trying to blow smoke, I 
lways
 JH> asked for a card.  Of course, I never asked regular customers.....it 
would
 JH> have been a bit anal of me.
I guess its a judgement call. I have never worked in a dive shop, but I 
suppose upon thinking back, Usually I too talk to people in the dive shops 
that I have patroned, usually before and during the process of a tank fill. I 
supose the store clerks use thier judgement in determining that I am 
certified.
 DB>> In my opinion, Air filling stations should be required to ask for
 DB>> proof of certification before filling any tanks. They always talk
 DB>> about not being able to get tanks filled in the PADI course, and any
 DB>> good instructor will instill this upon their students, but in reality
 DB>> the c-card is rarely asked for, and in my case has never been asked
 DB>> for.
 JH> Obviously we live in different areas.
I guess so. Actually I have never heard of the junior PADI course here in BC
until I read your message.
Are there any differences in the Training Syllabus over the Open Water Dive 
course training?
 DB>> Care to comment?
 JH> No, but thanks for the offer.  
Actually you already did (grin)
Nice chatting with you. If you ever find yourself in British Columbia Look me 
up. My Tanks are always Full and I am always eager to go diving.
                                        -=Derek=-
--- RA - PORTAL - GECHO - ALLFIX - TNP - GOLDED......KOOL!
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