LL> The Book of Genesis.  And the Qur'an.  As well as the NT.

Lee, since when are Christians supposed to place their faith in a book which
denies the Divinity of Jesus Christ, which instructs its followers to kill
for their faith, which refers to all non-Muslims as infidels, etc.?

LL> According to the Bible, every man, woman and child on the face of this
LL> planet are descendants of Noah (and his sons).

Agreed...and I said as much in my previous post.

LL> Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Abraham had two wives, Sarah and
LL> Hagar. Ishmael is the "father of the Arabs." Isaac is the
"father of the
LL> Jews." Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmael was born. Gen. 16:16 Abraham
LL> was 100 years old when Isaac was born. Gen. 21:5 Therefore, Ishmael was
LL> 14 years older than Isaac. A seal, or covenant, was made between God and
LL> man, through Abraham, by circumcision. That is found in Gen. 17:10.
LL> Ishmael was circumcised a year before Isaac was born.

Again, I am more than aware of all of the above points. I discuss the
lineage of the Jews and the Arabs in an old article of mine called "The
Children Of God And Politics", and probably in some of my other articles.

LL> And all are of the blood of Abraham.

Lee, first of all, "blood of Abraham" is not even a Biblical term, at least
not in the KJV. You will not find it a single time, anywhere in the KJV.
However, you will find the phrase "seed of Abraham" mentioned
eight times in
the entire KJV Bible, and every time, it is referring to the biological
offspring of Abraham, through Isaac; in other words, the flesh Jews, the
Israelites.

So biologically-speaking, as you will see in a moment, making this claim
that "we are all of the blood of Abraham" is simply not true. Just keep
reading and you will see what I mean.

LL> The term "we are all of the blood of Abraham" can better
be understood as
LL> being a reference to the common lineage of all peoples, rather than to
LL> specific religions.  Two rap artists (Benyad and Mazik), known as Blood of
LL> Abraham, express that viewpoint through their music.  Here is a quote from
LL> Benyad -

LL> "At first we were balls out militant about our heritage, but then we
LL> realized that even though all these organized religions had separated,
LL> they all recognized Abraham as a prophet.  So, in a sense we're all from
LL> the Blood of Abraham."

LL> BTW, both Benyad and Mazik are Jewish.

Lee, are you trying to tell me that you accept this "blood of Abraham"
doctrine simply because two Jewish rap artists say that it is so? What about
what the Bible says? Shouldn't that take precedence? Isn't the Bible the
bedrock of our Christian faith? I have taught for many years that the Bible
is the measuring stick by which we should judge all matters, beliefs and
doctrines. If something can't be clearly substantiated in the Bible, then I
have always urged caution to my readers.

You now say that the phrase "we are all of the blood of Abraham" is "a
reference to the common lineage of all peoples". That is still incorrect,
because all of humanity is not descended from Abraham. The word
"lineage" is
referring to biological continuity. As I noted earlier, it would be more
correct to say that we are all the children of Noah and his three sons. Now
THAT I can most certainly agree with.

Please understand that I am NOT saying that we modern-day Christians do not
have a connection to Abraham, as we most certainly do -- the Bible makes
this very clear -- but as I will be explaining momentarily, it is purely a
SPIRITUAL connection.

LL> So what?  Jews trace their roots to Isaac.  Muslims trace their roots to
LL> Ishmael.  Both Isaac and Ishmael were sons of Abraham. Christians, early
LL> on, traced their roots to Abraham.  As such, all Jews, Christians, and
LL> Muslims are of the blood of Abraham.

LL> You have obviously missed the point.  Entirely.  :)

No, I have missed nothing, Lee. I fully understand what you are trying to
say, but I don't agree with it, because it is not supported by the
Scriptures. To begin with, the biological link you make between modern
Christians and Abraham is flawed. Yes, the Jews are physically linked to
Abraham through Isaac. Yes, the Arabs -- not all Muslims -- trace their
physical lineage to Abraham through Ishmael. As a clarification, the
Iranians are Muslims, but they are not of Arab descent. That is why it is
more correct to say that Arabs trace their roots to Abraham, and not
Muslims, because not all Muslims are Arabs.

But then you make a big stretch by claiming that modern-day Christians are
of the blood of Abraham, because early Christians traced their roots to
Abraham. Lee, of course they did, because the first Apostles and Disciples
were indeed BIOLOGICAL Jews. Are all modern Christians biological Jews? Of
course not. Of course, by the Book of Acts, the situation quickly changed,
and many non-Jews began to embrace the nascent Christian faith, thanks to
the missionary endeavors of Paul, Peter and others.

As I said a moment ago, I do agree that we modern-day Christians do have a
link to Abraham, but it is not a physical, biological link -- we are not of
the blood of Abraham -- it is purely a spiritual link through faith. The
Apostle Paul perfectly explains this in these verses:

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all
Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham,
are they all children: but, in Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They
which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but
the children of the promise are counted for the seed . . . As he saith also
in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her
beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place
where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be
called the children of the living God."
Romans 9:6-8, 25-26, KJV

Do you see what Paul is saying there? Quite simply, he is saying that
just because a flesh Jew claims to be of the seed of Abraham does NOT
make it so. Paul says the very same thing in Romans 2:28-29, which I will
be sharing in a second message. So what in the world is Paul talking
about? The fact of the matter is that Paul is only teaching what Jesus
Himself said in the Gospel of John. Consider this:

"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto
them, If ye were AbrahamÕs children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But
now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have
heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then
said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even
God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye
are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He
was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there
is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he
is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye
believe me not."
John 8:39-45, KJV.

So Jesus made it very clear to those unbelieving Jews who had rejected Him,
that even though they may have been the PHYSICAL descendants of Abraham,
because they refused to accept Him as the long-awaited prophesied Messiah,
not only were they not truly the seed of Abraham, but they weren't even
God's children. They were in fact the children of the devil. Jesus, through
prophecy, says the very same thing about the unbelieving Jews in the Book of
Revelation, as you may well know:

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I
know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the
synagogue of Satan."
Revelation 2:9, KJV

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are
Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship
before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."
Revelation 3:9, KJV

So what were the "works of Abraham" that Jesus was talking about? Quite
simply, FAITH! Abraham's faith in God's promise to give him a son in his
old age, a son who would be an ancestor of Jesus Christ, was counted unto
Abraham for righteousness:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto
him for righteousness."
Romans 4:3, KJV

And it is because of our very same faith in Christ, who is Isaac's seed,
that we are also made righteous, and that is why we are the true SPIRITUAL
seed of Abraham, but not a biological seed. As we saw earlier, Paul said "in
Isaac shall thy seed be called". That is a prophecy about Jesus, and about
us. We are the true seed of faith, because we have faith in Jesus Christ.
God was promising Abraham that because of his faith in God's promise, He
would raise up a future nation of faith, through Jesus Christ, and we are
it!:

"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for
righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are
the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would
justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham,
saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith
are blessed with faithful Abraham . . . That the blessing of Abraham might
come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise
of the Spirit through faith . . . Now to Abraham and his seed were the
promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to
thy seed, which is Christ."
Galatians 3:6-9, 14, 16 KJV

So all of this talk about the "blood of Abraham" is really meaningless when
it comes right down to it. To reiterate, the Jews/Israelis may be Jews in
the flesh, but they are not true Jews, or the true seed of Abraham, or God's
true children, if they reject Jesus Christ as the one and only true Messiah.

The same is true of the Arabs. They may be the physical descendants of
Abraham through Ishmael, but if they reject Jesus Christ as the true
Messiah, then neither are they really the true seed of Abraham.

This applies to every single person in the world. The only true Children of
God, and the only true spiritual seed of Abraham, are those who accept Jesus
Christ as their Lord and Savior, through faith, just as Abraham did.

I have clearly proven these points directly from the Scriptures, for those
who choose to embrace them. It's not what I say, but what the Bible clearly
teaches us. You don't have to agree with me, but please don't disagree with
the Bible.

Lee, I'll discuss circumcision with you in a separate message.
Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS  Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23
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