0n (03 Oct 07) PETER COGGON wrote to CINDY HAGLUND...

 PC> Hello Cindy,

 -=> Quoting Cindy Haglund to Peter Coggon <=-

 PC>   Dogs all think in the here and now ... but they also know who
 PC> did what to them in the past.   They have memory.   I know who
 PC> threw a rock at Rusty, and so does he.

 PC> Rusty however remembers and the kid that did it shows no remorse

 We're all confused about how a dog 'thinks' because we're thinking in
the way WE think see... which is only natural. :)  For us. What the
dog is remembering is the scent.

If A dog is beaten, it will remember the sent of the abuser. If the
dog smells that same scent on someone else it may well react the same
way he/she did toward the abuser especially if the voices and
appearance are similar. (male/female for example).

We all project. When we took our dogs to Kennel Kare last July they
acted OVERJOYED (!) by golly .. they remembered all the scents. What
they "forgot" though is that we'd be leaving them there fora  week. Of
course they're always even a happier when we come back for them.
((They don't really forget' because they have no memory of being left
before but they DO remember the scents of the place )

I'm assured that the dog does not lay around dwelling on things and
missing things. The dog is in the here and now. This is hard for us
because we're mostly living in the past and hoping for the future all
the time. Dog's don't do that. Frankly I think their way is better.
Plus while they don't recall the details of the past, they do remember
the lessons. Something humans have a lot of trouble with.
Humans dwell on the details so much they don't' even NOTICe E the
lessons. Which is why past mistakes keeps being repeated.

...

 PC> in what he did, so Rusty still watches him with ears back and in
 PC> ready mode.    YET... he does forgive.  And that it that...all
 PC> forgotten and forgiven and that is wonderful.

Ears back and watchful (is his tail down or up?) is fear if the tail
is down. If the tail is up the ears would be perked. Tail down with
alert ears is assertive calm. Ears back with tail up is submissive
calm (relaxed which is how they prefer to be and we prefer them to
be.) .

They do seem to forgive don't they? But actually just as with small
children they don't remember. That's why when we correct a behavior
with a physical touch (as mother dog would do; gently but firmly) we
have to d it RIGHT away; catch them in the act. Otherwise they won't
remember or now why you are correcting them if you do so later.

CM says to correct a dog in one way he makes a claw of his hand and
firmly but not abusively taps his fingers under the dogs jaw. This
emulates the other's teeth. I tried this with Cosmo when he licks the
couch (leather). It works! Never hit the dog.

It is true. Never bite the hand that feeds you... thus with dogs,
never use your hands as a weapon lest you want to get bit and most dogs
even the most laid back will bite if provoked enough.

.....

 PC> If he gets hurt.   I am with him at all times at the vet, even to
 PC> getting a muzzle in place in case Rusty gets into a panic. When


If you are calm he'll be. We don't notice this so much but energies
are infectious. :) Ever notice how how you feel more at ease around
someone who is as well. But around a hyper person say, it's harder to
maintain that calm?


 PC> the muzzle has to be both the vet and I are calm and patient with
 PC> him, and we both see him through the procedure...out the other
 PC> side..muzzle off and treats and a hug. and he settles down into
 PC> what he has become.

 I have to figure out a way to get Cosmo to open his mouth so the vet
can examine his teeth. Cosmo hates opening his mouth. This came from
having to take a chew stick from him before he chews enough to swallow
the stuff which will make him sick. Lately though when we give him a
chewstick he quits at it before it gets soft.

(To get it out of his mouth though we'd just hang on without tugging
til he lets go. He's got one strong set of jaws that little guy does!

 PC> Whatever the trip to the vets....I must be calm and not show any
 PC> signs over what might be going on.   Rusty, like all dogs reads

 Nod. Not try, DO!  I have to remind myself of this because dogs
can read right through our 'try'. What helps is thinking about happy
things so your mind in the right gear. If you feel anxious the dog
will too.

 PC> the chemistry changes and he senses through smell something is up.

 Yep. They smell our adrenaline levels and there's this butyric acid
they're known to detect. Among other things. They have amazing noses.
Imagine how the poor things must feel when somebody reeking of
perfUME enters the room.
.......

 CH> I guess how it goes is that dogs don't understand "you're
okay". But
 CH> they do understand our body language and calm energy. :) THAT they
 CH> learn from. If we're calm that is. If we're fretful, they learn fear.

 PC> YES...

 Yeah and you know when we say 'you're okay' we are calming ourselves
 as well..
 

 CH> ......

 PC>  When I turn the antennas on the tower, Rusty goes nuts, and runs out
 PC> and starts barking at the rotor..he knows where it is...

Tell him to stop and ignore him for a bit til he calms down. Then
reward him.  OH btw .. now the Chestnut Tree in front of my sister's
house is hurling chestnuts lol .. every time one hits the house the dog
barks.
...
       
 PC>   He knows by the tone of my voice the order.  Treats was started by
 PC> my mother during his training lessons.   Now walks around the block

 Treats just encourage begging. And it's they demanding something of
YOU. That makes them the pack leader. Gimme a treat or I won't do it.
LOL. They'll do anything for a treat. But will they do it otherwise? hmm!
That's the true test of who the leader
of the pack is.

Mothers (my MIL for example) mistaken treats as love.


 PC> bring stops at all corners, and a sit and then the treat...as done
 PC> by mum.    Lately he has formed a union and he wants more benefits.

 : )  He'll prolly do it without the treat as it will be
come a conditioned response.

 PC> We are still in meetings for the next contract, and treats is still
 PC> 3 during the walk.

  The pet food companies do need to stay in business right? < WINK
WINK. We did go through that regimen btw. I  prefer Abbie simply
MIND. It is expected of her. Her reward is affection. Doesn't cost a
dime either. :) (A quick petting on the head for example and
radiating happy energy.) Gosh every time we walk by another dog and she
doesn't go nutzo I feel like rewarding her with a t-bone steak. She
sense my happiness and wags her tail as we move on by the distraction.

I' told keep on walking. But if you're going to correct the dog, do it
before they start getting all excited .. once they start going nutzo
you can't stop them. You either pull on buy or you sit them down Until
they calm down and the distraction goes away.

Our latest project with Abbie is to make her SIT and wait as we go out
the back door for her to go play out back. She likes to BOLT out the
door. We're putting an end to that. She has a tendency to push Cosmo
aside and that is rude.. so we have to correct her on this. It's gonna
take awhile to instaill this good manners bit. The hardest part is
being consistent. Make her sit, calm down, EVERY time.

................

 PC> When I am out of treats, he is told.  Thats ok...we proceed on the
 PC> walk.

 My point ! SEE? You really don't need the treats. But yeah they will
 look at us expecting one.

 With Patches we quit treats on a walk because he kept begging for one
.. OH one fine day a car whizzed by and somebody tossed out a slice of
pizza. I KID YOU not! I didn't realize this though until I looked down
and there's Patches with a slice of very fresh pizza hanging out of
his mouth... No, he did not get to eat it. I didn't want him getting
sick. Heck knows what was on the thing.
.....

 PC> I always pat him, and tell him he  has done right, every time even if
 PC> I don't offer a treat.   I am glad he can accept the fact that there
 PC> is not always a treat.


 That's the affection reward. The best kind. The kind all of us
humans crave and so few will give. Parents for example. Withhold praise
and affection thinking it'll 'go to their heads'. Sad isn't it. Best
to reward with treats! When all we really want is a hug!

In the wild/ in nature dogs don't reward each other in the obvious
way. Simply being accepted in the pack is enough. Same is so in human
society I guess. But we humans do crave affection. Or dogs love it as
we do which is why so many of us prefer the company of dogs to people.

......

 CH> I do like how CM says it's okay to be human you know, just remember
 CH> your dog isn't. They like affection but it's counter productive at the
 CH> wrong time, he says. (As in when they're afraid.)

 PC> Nope... If Rusty is afraid, I go with him.  We investigate together
 PC> even if it is -20 below and snow and I have boots and my PJs and gown
 PC> on...with a jacket...I go.    In this way, I have overcome most of

Nothing wrong with investigating it together. :) Just don't be afraid.
WHen Abbie showed fear at a pile of bricks, I took her to the bricks
calmly and let her sniff. After that she was fine. Walks right by that
pile with nary a flinch. Dogs do not see as well as we do and she may
have seen the bricks as 'another and much  bigger dog'... Once she got
a sniff and realized it was no threat she was fine. :) ((Meanwhile I
was trying not to laugh because she was so funny about it.))
.......

 PC> his boogeyman problems.  Just some of them right now I can not find
 PC> the right route to , to destroy.

 PC> When he is shaking, and afraid...my hugging and reassurance is all
 PC> there, because if not when I really need him he will panic.

 You are reinforcing his fear. Wait for him to calm and THEN give him
the hugs. He'll earn he gets the hugs when he acts calmly. And that
will help him get over whatever is spooking him. But I agree saying
it's okay in a calm assertive way IS helpful. Just don't get mushy. :)
Getting mushy is a weakness, to a dog. It's a weak energy ; non pack
leader energy.
....

 PC>   MMmmmm not a fan of the dog on furniture.   If I ignore Rusty

 That is up to the owner ... I guess we do it because we like to have
 them warm us up on a cold winter night... :) She doesn't get up on
the back of the couch so often anymore because I don't let her
interrupt my reading any more. I get her a chew stick and she goes to
the ottoman to chew on it.
................
 PC> or his paw, then I might get a paw with nail  biting deeper in my
 PC> back.    He wants to communicate, and if it is toilet time, and he
 PC> does it in the house then he is really upset, and reads my body
 PC> language as I hop to cleaning it up.   << Recently he has problems
 PC> due to meds.   I stopped some meds, and applied others known to
 PC> my family for whatever far back >>.

 You know this is something I would like to ask CM about. He says not
to let the dog be the boss. If he wants to go out and lets you know,
make him wait a minute.....  hmmmm...  Well we DO want them to let us
know if they have to go...

BTW here's something for owners of female dogs. I didn't know this. As
they age they may become incontinent. There's a medication that helps
..and after awhile the problem goes away. Diet changes help. I'd ask
the vet but that was interesting. ALso there's the debate on whether to
wait on estrus cycle before neutering. I looked this up and I asked a
couple friends with female dogs and they say it's better for the dog
to do it before the estrus cycle. Now get this. It's the breeders who
push waiting because they say it enhances certain characteristics of
the breed! LOOKS that tis. The dogs nature is NOT effected. And in fact
might be if you wait too long.

.....
 PC> Rusty's food time is 4:00PM ... he lets me know.  By anyway he can.

 Our is 4:30 but they often don't eat until after we do. CM says
followers will not eat until the pack leaders do. Well that may be so
but I think ours wait because they want to see if they get any scraps
first  BUT They never eat on Fridays when we go out to dinner, until we
get back. hmm.

We started earlier because the vet in Fl said it's best to get them out
for their evening walk before 8PM (or before dusk ) due to when the
,.....

 PC> Maria has a fit, cuz Rusty checks everyone coming on the property.
 PC> After a while, and all checks he leaves.   Job done.

 That is his job! :) Dogs like to have a job. She should not have a
fit. And if he's sniffing crotches just tap with fingers up under his
jaw to correct him. He'll get a sniff in another way.

Whenever we ent to visit an SIL her big huge huskie's nose was right
in your crotch as soon as you walked in the door. It's okay to push
the dog's nose out of the way. They get the message.  But don't have a
fit. They won't understand that. Just calmly say no.

Dogs greet /get to know by sniffing/knowing scents just like we do that
by seeing and talking/hearing.

....


 CH> I know that collar yeah. I had to use it on a big dog I dogsat last
 CH> summer. She didn't like that collar at all but after a few days she
 CH> knew I wouldn't let her lead so she behaved better.

 PC> I got rid of it the first day.  He will never have it again. Worse
 PC> dumb thing I did to him.

 I used it a couple of times until Sadie and I got comfortable with
each other ron a walk. Then we both decided she didn't need it anymore.
It's kind of hard  to put on and get off sometimes too.

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