On 04/15/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Lee Lofaso: Re: Christians And Jews.

LL> Ah.  The HOLYSMOKE echo.  Haven't participated in that forum in years. Is
LL> Bill Kochman still the moderator?  Or is it somebody else?


Concerning the HOLYSMOKE echo, trust me, you aren't missing much. I browse
through there just to see what is going on, and most of it is back and forth
arguing and debate, and as you can imagine, mocking just about anything that
has a spiritual ring to it. I find it quite sickening. I've posted one message
in there since I returned to FidoNet three weeks ago, and that message was
really directed to the Christians who visit that echo. I asked them why they
continue to waste their time arguing with people who quite obviously have no
interest whatsoever in the Christian faith. They simply want to mock it and
prove it wrong. But, everyone is free to post where they wish.

If you are asking who is the moderator of the HOLYSMOKE echo, according to the
April echolist, it is Ross Cassell and Dan Ceppa. If, on the other hand, you
are asking who is the current moderator of this echo, according to the
echolist, and until otherwise noted, it is Steve Asher...but I think that you
already knew that; after all, your messages do originate from his BBS in
Australia. :)

LL> This particular echo is for discussion of the end times. Christians hold a
LL> particular view as pertains to the end times. Jews hold a particular view
LL> as pertains to the end times. Muslims hold a particular view as pertains to
LL> the end times.
LL>
LL> Without the understanding of each particular view, it is impossible to
LL> understand fully what the end times are, or how the end times will be
LL> played out.
LL>
LL> The Christian concept of Messiah is not the same as the Jewish concept of
LL> Messiah.  Muslims also have a concept of Messiah, called the Mahdi.


I am fully aware of the purpose of this echo. Likewise, I am more than aware
that while we Christians await the Return of our Messiah, Jesus Christ, the
Orthodox Jews, on the other hand, wait for the return of their false messiah,
Moschiach ben David, who may be a combination military/political/spiritual
leader.

Of course, the Jews do not view their messiah exactly the same as we view
Jesus Christ. Their messiah will not proclaim himself to be the Son of God.
Neither will he claim the right to sit in the Third Temple, assuming that it
will be built, as is anticipated by Orthodox Jews, as well as some Christians.
Instead, from everything I have read on this subject, the Orthodox Jews
themselves will offer him the seat in the temple, after he has proven to them,
by his deeds, that he is truly their messiah. If he brings peace to Israel,
and sees to the construction of the temple, then they will more than likely be
convinced. Of course, we know where it will go from there...2 Thessalonians
chapter 2.

Concerning the Muslims, again, I am aware of their prophecies concerning the
Mahdi. It is my personal belief at this time that the Beast and the False
Prophet may possibly be of Muslim origin, a powerful team which will work
together to convince the Muslim and Arab nations to attack Israel. The Mahdi
may possibly be the False Prophet who will inspire and empower the Beast, who
may be a popular and powerful Arab/Muslim political and military leader.

As I exlain in my "Glossary Of Endtime Terms", which I posted
earlier in this
echo, unlike some Christians, I am not convinced that the Beast and the
Antichrist are one and the same person. In my view and understanding of the
Scriptures, the Antichrist will be the Jewish false messiah, Moshiach ben
David; while the Beast will be the aforementioned Muslim political leader who
will work in conjunction with the False Prophet -- the Mahdi?

The truth is, until these events actually play themselves out, none of us know
with 100% certainty. We can only speculate.

LL> During the last days, the holy spirit will be poured forth throughout the
LL> world, enabling peoples of faith (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) to fully
LL> understand the events that are to take place, and to recognize Antichrist
LL> (whom Muslims call the Dajjal).  That is not to say that all Jews,
LL> Christians, and Muslims will understand what is going on, or recognize
LL> Antichrist.  But some will.  And it is that elect who will work TOGETHER in
LL> opposition to Antichrist.  JS>In a word, no, I do not like to debate,


We obviously have a very different understanding of these Endtime events. In
the Book of Acts, as you already know, the Apostle Peter and the other
Apostles quote from the Prophet Joel and state the following:

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my
Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and
your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on
my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
and they shall prophesy:"
Acts 2:17-18, KJV

I have discussed this prophecy in several of my articles, and it is my opinion
that some people, even Christians, have misunderstood it. For one thing, what
is Peter saying there? He is saying that the prophecy was fulfilled that day;
that is, on the day of Pentecost when Peter and the others were filled with
the Holy Spirit, and then began to boldly preach to the thousands who had
gathered in Jerusalem for the Pentecost feast.

If we understand time in the context that God views it, we can see that in
reality, we have been living in the Endtimes for the past 2,000 years. Why?
Well, if we consider Peter's statement regarding God being timeless, and how a
thousand years is like a day to Him, then the last 2,000 years would really be
like the last two days of a seven-day period...the first day -- or millennium
-- being when God created everything in Genesis, and forward from that point.
Do you follow me?

So the way that I personally look at it, is that we are currently living in
the final days/years of the Endtime. We are living at the cusp of the
culmination of Endtime events, which began 2,000 years ago. After all, Jesus
did say that the Gospel would be preached in all the world, and then the end
would come...and that is precisely what has been happening for the past 2,000
years.

Now, in my view, the only way to get around what Peter said about the prophecy
of Joel being fulfilled on that day of Pentecost, is to suggest that Peter was
wrong, and that, obviously, will make some Christians very uncomfortable. :)

Let me cover a final point. Joel's prophecy states that God will pour out His
Spirit upon all flesh; but then it clarifies by saying "your sons and your
daughters", etc. But then it also very specifically says "on my
servants and
on my handmaidens".

So the question in my mind is this: Does the prophecy really mean that God
will pour out His Spirit on Jews, Christians and Muslims? Is this what it
means by "all flesh". I am not convinced that it does. Who are
God's sons and
daughters? Who are God's servants and handmaidens? They are those who do the
Will of God. And exactly what is the Will of God? Jesus answered this question
quite plainly when He said:

"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe
on him whom he hath sent."
John 6:29, KJV

The above verse goes hand-in-hand with these verses:

"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who
are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and
said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my
Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
Matthew 12:48-50, KJV

In short, it is my belief, as the Scriptures clearly teach, that the only true
adopted Children of God, or sons and daughters of God, or servants and
handmaidens of God, are those who accept Jesus Christ as the one and only
Messiah, and Savior of the world. If God is going to pour out His Spirit, it
would be upon these, and not upon people who reject the Divinity of His Son.
Such people would be unclean vessels for God's Spirit.

You also suggest that Jews, Muslims and Christians will fight against the
Antichrist. Again, I cannot fully agree with that statement. For one thing, if
the Antichrist turns out to be Moschiach ben David, the false messiah of the
Orthodox Jews, then they are obviously not going to fight against him. In
fact, they are going to support him, and give him the temple. They will be
totally deceived by this charlatan, for as Paul wrote:

". . . because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be
saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
should believe a lie:"
2 Thessalonians 2:10b- 11, KJV

I discuss all of these events on our Endtime Prophecy Net website.
This message is getting kind of long, so I will continue it in another message
if I have more to say from this current post of yours.

Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS  Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23
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