Jim McCulloch wrote:
> 
> In article , "John M. Wildenthal"
>  wrote:
> 
> > Jim McCulloch wrote:
> >
> > > In article , "Jerry Peacock"
> > >  wrote:
> 
> > >
> > > I figured it would sound about right to you. Inasmuch as Kleck's figures
> > > are wrong by a factor of 30, if we take the NCVS statistics as our guide,
> > > we can assign you the full NRA credulity ranking of 30.  Most of the
> > > readers of tx.guns, at least, will probably score higher than that.

	Nonsense.

> > But Jim, the NCVS wasn't designed to properly estimate defensive firearm use.
> 
> Really? That would be news to the NCVS's statisticians. They need to know
> this. Perhaps you should write and tell them.
> 
> >The NCVS is a useful tool for several things, but
> > it wasn't designed to estimate the number of defensive firearm uses.
> 
> Again, this would be news to the NCVS.

	No, it would not be news since the NCVS folks explain what that survey
is for, and determining the number of crimes prevented is NOT among those.
 
> Not only do Kleck's figures diverge wildly from the NCVS's figures, but
> they diverge wildly from each other.

	A change in the statistical methods or tests would be expected to yield
different results, that isn't unusual in fact if they didn't produce
different results THAT would be suspect.

 
> One of the more amusing improbabilities of Kleck's recent figures, is that
> the logically required body count of criminals killed or wounded by the
> defensive uses he reports exceeds the known number of persons wounded by
> guns from all causes every year.

	I don't where you pulled that assessment from, but it's certainly not
from any of Kleck's work.  His work won a prestigious award for
criminological work and has been subject to thorough per review.  No one
has been able to discredit his methodology nor its accuracy.

	No, YOU do not count.
 
> Leaving aside the question of where the bodies of the killed have been
> hidden, the question of where wounded got treatment is an interesting one
> indeed.  Kleck, I have read, believes they got treatment secretly.
> 
> Kleck could perhaps do another survey of imaginary things, and give us a
> hard count of emergency rooms and physicians who treat gunshot wounds
> without reporting them.

	Another fascist admits not understanding Kleck's work or his methodology.

Pat Hines