On 04/14/09, Jeff Snyder quoted Lee Lofaso: Re: Christians And Jews.

LL> Wha'?  You no like debate?  How about sharing some recipes?  You would love
LL> the new recipe I posted elsewhere, Catfood Helper.  Great way to stretch
LL> the dollar.  Or the euro.  Or the yuan.  Or the yen. Or the pound.
LL> Especially in these hard and trying economic times...  JS>but a

Lee, in case you did not realize it, this is NOT a debate echo for debating
the validity of the Christian faith. Nowhere in the current echo description
does it state directly, or indirectly, that this is a debate echo. If your
interest is in debate, may I suggest the HOLYSMOKE echo.

In a word, no, I do not like to debate, because rarely does it ever lead to
anything positive on either side of the fence. I share what I believe, and why
I believe it, using the Scriptures to prove my points. If people concur with
my views, great; but if not, that is their choice.

Yes, I read your recipe in another echo, and left a comment there. It appears
that you posted the same or similar message in at least three echoes that I am
aware of.

LL> We are all of the blood of Abraham.  Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike.
LL> Belief in one God, all coming from the same family, is what makes us
LL> brothers.  JS>The Muslim "God" likewise teaches that
God has no son.


Lee, that isn't exactly correct, and I am not sure from where you obtained
that information. More correctly, according to the Bible, we are all
descendants of the three sons of Noah -- Shem, Ham and Japheth. While it is
true that Abraham and his descendants were Shemites, we are not all
biologically descended from Abraham. As you obviously realize, there are Jews,
Christians and Muslims of many different nationalities all around the world.
Some are Shemites, some are Hamites, and some are Japhethites. Thus, not all
Jews, Christians and Muslims are of the blood of Abraham.

What is most important is not our physical bloodline, but rather whether or
not we have been washed in the Blood of Jesus Christ. If we are, then we truly
are the Children of God, and of one and the same family -- the Household of
God. Those who reject Christ are not of the Household of God. I've written a
lot about this issue in my articles, but consider these key verses:

"But as many as received him [Jesus], to them gave he power to become the sons
of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12, KJV

"For through him [Jesus] we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with
the saints, and of the household of God;"
Ephesians 2:18-19, KJV

As I said in my previous post, and I reiterate, while Jews, Christians and
Muslims may believe in one God, if we carefully examine their body of beliefs,
particularly as they pertain to the nature and mission of Jesus Christ, it is
obvious to see that they cannot be worshiping the same God, that is, the
Christian God. God simply will not contradict Himself by stating that, yes, He
has a Son who died for the sins of the world, and then turn around and say
that He has no Son, as both Jews and Muslims proclaim. As you already know,
the Jews outright reject Christ, while Muslims only accept Him as a prophet,
and no more.

My spiritual brothers and sisters are only those who accept the atoning
Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. What you propose sounds more like a One World
Religion where we can all be one big happy family...just as long as we reject
the Divine Nature and Mission of Jesus Christ. This I will never accept.
Ecumenism is dangerous business.

LL> Muslims refer to God as Allah.  So do many Christians. Although Muslims do
LL> not accept Jesus (whom they call Isa) as Messiah, it is not an absolute
LL> rejection.  By their understanding, we are all "sons of
God" rather than
LL> any single individual being the "Son of God."  JS>The
Christian God clearly


Lee, again, you have been misled. True Bible-believing Christians do not refer
to God as Allah...only Muslims and some Arab Christians do. Allah is not my
God, and never will be. Again, I am fully aware of Muslim beliefs regarding
the nature of Jesus Christ. I have studied the Qur'an, and written about it as
well.

LL> Who knows what the Christian god teaches? Who knows what the Jewish god
LL> teaches? Who knows what the Muslim god teaches? Who knows what the Hindu
LL> god teaches? Who knows what the Buddhist god teaches? Who knows what the
LL> Atheist god teaches?


Lee, at this point of your post you really get into a lot of New Age-ish
sounding psychobabble where there are no absolutes. Sorry, but I don't buy
into that line of thought. There are absolutes, and they are clearly defined
for us in God's Word, the Bible.


Personally, I have never claimed to know and understand everything,
particularly when it comes to the matters of our faith. It is true that we are
all told what to believe when we are young, and even after that; however, we
each reach an age where we must form our own opinions. I believe what I
believe because I have been convinced of it from God's Word, the Bible, and
not because someone else made me believe it. I have given a great deal of
time, thought, effort and study to my beliefs, and I am sure that you have as
well. I don't need to see the Face of God in order to believe. Even a logical,
observant individual can deduce that God exists, just by looking at the world
around him, and the complexity of it all, even if he has never read a single
page in the Bible; for, as the Apostle Paul wrote:

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly
seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and
Godhead; so that THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE:"
Romans 1:20, KJV

Thus, as I have pointed out many times before in my articles, absolutely no
one has any excuse for not believing in God...no one!

LL> Jesus does not believe in God. Satan does not believe in God.


Lee, that is more silly psychobabble, and is totally contrary to what the
Scriptures teach us. I could share piles of Bible verses with you regarding
that first issue. As to your second comment there, here is just one small
example which demonstrates how off-base you are with that comment:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also
believe, and tremble."
James 2:19, KJV

If you knew the Scriptures better, you would not be making some of the
comments which have absolutely no Scriptural basis, and in fact are contrary
to the Scriptures.

LL> Belief is not dependent on proof. We believe what we want to believe.
LL> Whether that something is true or not.
LL>
LL> None of the Apostles believed Jesus rose from the grave. Not just Thomas.
LL> Read the gospel accounts.  It's all in there.
LL>
LL> "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." - Jesus
LL>
LL> Jesus was not talking only about a doubting Thomas.


Well, there is one point where we do agree. Belief does not depend on proof.
It is a matter of believing without the need to see first. As the Apostle
wrote in Hebrews:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not
seen." Hebrews 11:1,

Sadly, Jesus questioned how much faith would be remaining in the world when He
finally returns. He said:

". . . Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the
earth?"
Luke 18:8b, KJV

Just looking around FidoNet, it is plain to see that Jesus had legitimate
concerns.

I know where I stand; how about you?


Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS  Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23
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