0n (27 Sep 07) Joe Bruchis wrote to Cindy Haglund...

 JB> Hello Cindy.

 JB> 27 Sep 07 11:09, you wrote to me:

 CH>  Cosmo will lick my ear if he has to go out, Abbie, my arm. I'm glad
 CH> they don't go for my nose  The very very first time Cosmo licked my
 CH> ear to wake me up (he was a pup and no longer needing the crate at
 CH> night)...  he SCARED me.. and I startled awake... I startled him too
 CH> and then I just cracked up laughing so I know he knew somehow he was
 CH> okay. Now Abbie and Cosmo both jocky for ideal spots on the bed. It's
 CH> kinda interesting how they work it out. A nice quiet way they do it.
 CH> Abbie isn't tooo bossy. She knows who the boss is and if I see her
 CH> bossing Cosmo cuz she LETS him, I tell her no. And then she's good.

 JB> I found two dogs are better than one. The alpha usually acts as a role

 I agree. Dogs do need to be with their own kind (other dogs). :)

 Our dogs get so excited seeing other dogs when out on a walk, on a
leash not because they're being aggressive! No. They just want to say
HI! So if your dog does act up ask the owner of the other dog if they
he or she would mind if the dogs exchanged greetings (sniff sniff
wagging tails)... Once they do that then the next time you pass each
other by they'll behave a lot better.

Of course if it looks like they won't be friendly to one another (tail
not wagging, and they're growling)- best to pull on leash say no and
keep on walking. (Staying cool and calm though yourself so they'll
settle down.)

And in having two dogs they keep each other complany when you're not at
home. :)
     
JB> a year after the male. They did battle to determine the alpha, and the
 JB> male won, although had she been healthier it could have been the

With Cosmo and Patches, Cosmo didn't want Patches on "HIS" Bed (our
bed) until I said firmly to Cosmo, "this is MY bed".. establishing who t
he pack leader is. Cosmo resigned himself and the two got along
fabulously. A little comedy team they were when they played together.
A little abbot and Costello ... a little Laruel and hardy... ah..  :)

And you know when Cosmo had hurt his back and needed to be crated to
assure he'd rest and not play- Patches would sit by the crate in such
a protective way.

On another occasion when we were visiting with our dogs, my sister and
family when they lived in Indiana - Patches played referre when Cosmo
played with my sisters dog Yogi (tibetan spaniel). ((Cos and Patch
both shih tzu with Patches being a mix shih tzu terrier)...

When Cosmo plays too long he gets asthma. He started backing off but
Yogi didn't want to quit so Patches nipped Yogi on the butt! AH! There
the three established their hierarchy right there and then. Yogi
left Cosmo alone after that.

((Come to think of it I am not sure Yogi was actually playing. He was
very territorial. It's up to the humans to establish themselves as
pack leaders and correct that behavior.))


 JB> opposite.  Anyway, the male taught her where to "make",
what not to do
 JB> in the house, etc. He basically trained her for us. That was nice.


Dogs do that. They correct each other. :) Cosmo always did 'number 1"
by leaning forward. When he saw how Patches lifted leg, he started
doing it that way too. But now that Patches has passed on and Abbie
squats, he's gone back to his leaning forward habit. ((Abbie has this
funny habit of shaking her left back leg as she goes.))
.......

 JB> My Yorkie eats about 1/2 cup of dry food a day. I leave his bowl on
 JB> the floor and he nibbles at it all day. I know that's not the correct
 JB> method, but what the heck. 

 That is better too so they eat what they want when they need to and
no more. I think dogs who bolt their food do so because they're so
darn hungry. We do the same thing. IIRC for humans it's better to eat
six small healthy meals a day than three big ones. Some folks eat six
big meals a day and snack in between.

I have this theory on hunger. If you ever had your wisdom teeth out
or some other sort of surgery where you have to live on liquids for
awhile - you eventually get a maddening craving for something to sink
your teeth into like a big fat juicy hamburger. This is our body
craving protein and B vitamins we may not be getting in the liquid
diet. Plus of course the physicals satisfaction of sinking your teeth
into a fat juicy humbugger. Even if you don't like hamburgers the crave
will be very strong because it is DRIVING you to fill a need. It's up
to us to realize what the need is. Most folks sadly don't realize what
is going on and will eat junk instead. :( So they're always hungry!
(Even if they're over weight.)

The same is going on with dogs. We let them eat junk. ... :( But they
too are always hungry. Why? Junk food does not satisfy our
nutritional needs and can even make us sick so we don't want to eat
right or get exercise. :(  It's an ugly cycle. And dogs are in it too.
.....


 CH> That too. :) But according to the dog experts dogs rely more heavily

 CH> on their sense of smell. The order is : Smell, sight, hearing. Note:
 CH> dogs are more apt to respond to a quiet calm verbal command then
 CH> angry screaming. Anger stimulates fear/aggression in some types but
 CH> will get you nothing at all by those dogs who are calm/assertive.
 CH> They'll see you as weak and they the pack leader.

 JB> Well, I believe you are correct, except for sight hounds, like
 JB> dalmatians. Their trained eye seems to be as good or better a sense
 JB> than their sense of smell.

 Hmm. That is interesting! :) Are by any chance these the dogs who are
allowed to live even though they're born deaf? In that case their
sight WOULD compensate for lack of hearing which a dog does not rely
much on anyway so I'm told.

.......


 CH> There's this idea of correct (not punish but correct) the bad behavior
 CH> and praise the good. Praising the good often eliminates the bad. That
 CH> is if you dog or kid for that matter LIKES being praised. In some
 CH> types being bad is preferred so this wont work. :( They LIKE being
 CH> bad. .. Sad trip that. I guess then only negatives work there.

 JB> Freedom, my Yorkie responds very well to praise.  I have only had to
 JB> use the firm pop, once.  The rest was praise for continuing the
 JB> correct behavior.

  Mine too. But I think it's more the TONE of our voice than what we
say. I have tried saying a negative word in a soft voice (LOL this is
hard to do!)... ON the other hand I do swear they DO understand some
words. It's uncanny! :)

One time when I was talking about Patches and said 'he's the smarter
one'.. COSMO .. I swear he did this! - snorted at me and walked away.
He acted miffed until I pet him and apologized .:)

 CH> .........

 JB> Yep, I watch Cesar Millan and have learned a lot from his shows. I
 JB> have never seen him house-train a dog though.  I ordered his second
 JB> season on DVD, but I haven't received it yet.

 As you can tell I am totally fascinated by him. I need to finish his
book. The book. "Cear's Way'. It is fantastic! And he has it set up
with a reference glossary in the back.

One thing that I do not understand though Joe is his use of the word
submissive. As in Submissive Calm. The ideal state for us as well as
dogs. Leaders are assertive calm. Followers are submissive calm.
(Humans play both roles in life but with the dog you need to be
assertive calm if you want the dog to be submissive calm.).

He explains by 'submissive' he does NOT mean 'fearful/weak/slavish'.
But that is how most of us see that word don't we? I'd prefer he use
the word relaxed.

I do like how he draws a distinction between correction and
punishement. A dog corrects another dog by barking or growling or
nudging. There's no physical attack involved, no 'verbal abuse' as
with humans...  Simply showing the appropriate way to behaves.

For example with a child. If you wanted the child to set the fork on
the left side of the plate. All you need  to do is take their hand
with the fork and move it to the desired spot. Then you might smile
and say, there that's nice. Doing it right and getting praise for it
reinforces the right behavior.

Now if you were to hit and scream at the poor kid for putting the fork
on the wrong side of the plate what do you think? The child might obey
but only out of fear. Soon as he gets a chance he's goonna do it any
old way he want. Punishment teaches aggression. :( Correction simply
teaches. ...

I have felt very sad that we have lived in a negatively attitudinized society
where good behavior goes un noticed most often.... because it is
expected. While a dog will repeat good behavior simply because there's
no correction involved a human thrives on praise.

I said 'lived in' because it seems we've gone from one extreme to
another. Rewarding everybody the same... kills motivation but that's
all with humans.

I like how it is with dogs. They live in the present.They only
remember what they LEARNED from the past, but not the details the way
humans do which  IMHO keeps us forever bogged down... ah.

Okay I better stop. :)
..................

 JB> I'm hooked-up here now and copied our chat over from COFFEE KLATSCH.
 JB> BTW, Roger let me know he was the moderator here and you are the
 JB> co-moderator. Did you know that? 

 Okay. OH yeah .. I have to read every single last message. This job
may well help me master concision ! 

Cindy

... We've secretly replaced their dilithium with new Folger's crystals...

--- PPoint 3.01