LL> Nowhere in the NT, or anywhere else in the Bible, does it say that hell is
LL> forever.

LL> The concept of hell is forever is Satanic, and rejected by those of the
LL> Christian faith.

Again, Lee, nowhere in my previous message did I state that hell is forever.
The truth is, in your own confusion, when I called you out on your erroneous
belief regarding "Eternal Damnation", in your mind, somehow you made the
erroneous assumption that I was saying that hell is forever, when I never
even broached on the exact nature of hell. If you really want to know, then
please take the time to read the aforementioned article.

In essence, Lee, you created an argument where there is no argument; and you
would have known that, if you had taken the time to study my article first,
or at the very least had asked me politely what my understanding is
regarding the word "hell". You didn't do that. Instead, you rushed to
judgment, and made a false assumption regarding what I believe.

Lee, let me remind you again, as is clearly stated in the echo rules, that
this is NOT a debate echo; and this is most certainly not the HOLYSMOKE
echo. If you want confrontational religious debate, then please go to
HOLYSMOKE. This echo is for the respectful discussion of the Christian
faith. It is not a battle zone like HOLYSMOKE. If you have questions, then
ask them in a spirit of meekness. If I know the answer, I will tell you. If
I don't know the answer, then I will tell you that as well. But in all
cases, I will point people to the Scriptures in order to validate my
position, and to find the answers that they need, because as it is written:

". . . for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."
Psalms 138:2c, KJV

Lee, your belief that Jesus only taught about a God of Love and Mercy, and
not a God of wrath, is clearly contrary to what the Scriptures teach. Let's
look at some of the verses you shared.

LL> Let's be a bit more inclusive than the limited verses you cite.

LL> John 3:16

Lee, that verse does NOT negate anything that I have stated here. Either we
accept God's Mercy through Christ, or else we face His Wrath through
eternal judgment/damnation.

LL> John 3:36

Yes, Lee, it states "the wrath of God abideth on him". That
certainly sounds
like the Wrath of God to me. I don't know how you interpret the phrase any
other way.

LL> Matthew 10:28

Having both soul and body destroyed in the Lake of Fire, (translated in this
verse as "hell"), certainly sounds like the Wrath of God to me.

LL> Revelation 14:9-11

Yes, those verses use the phrases "wrath of God", "tormented
with fire and
brimstone", "for ever and ever" and "no rest".
Now, if that isn't describing
the Wrath of God, which you deny, then I don't know what is.

LL> Revelation 20:13-15

I already discussed this group of verses previously. We are in agreement
regarding hell being destroyed, and have been from the start. In your haste,
you created an argument where there never was an argument. But again, these
verses demonstrate the clear Wrath of God against incorrigible unbelievers.

LL> Revelation 21:1

Yes, a New Heaven and a New Earth...but it does NOT negate anything I have
stated previously. "Eternal Damnation" is real, and the Wrath of God is
real. Here are a few more verses for you taken from the Book of Revelation
which clearly discuss the Wrath of God and the Wrath of the Lamb. How you
deny that God is also a God of Wrath is beyond me:

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face
of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the
great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
Revelation 6:16-17, KJV

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out
without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented
with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the
presence of the Lamb . . . And the angel thrust in his sickle into the
earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great
winepress of the wrath of God."
Revelation 14:10, 19, KJV

"And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having
the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God . . . And
one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of
the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever."
Revelation 15:1, 7, KJV

"And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go
your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth . . .
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the
nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto
her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."
Revelation 16:1, 19, KJV

"And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the
nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the
winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."
Revelation 19:15, KJV

LL> I could cite more verses, but those are enough to make the point.

The only point you have made, Lee, is a point which was never in dispute to
begin with, because I never once stated that hell is forever. Furthermore,
by the verses that you shared, you also confirmed that God is a God of both
Love and Mercy, as well as a God of Wrath. Again, this is an issue which I
discuss in some of my articles, such as my 1997 article "Love And Light, Or
Rod And Wrath?", which you can read at the following link, or download in
PDF format from the Armageddon BBS:

http://www.endtimeprophecy.net/EPN-1/Articles/Articles-Disc/lovelit1.html

Lee, none of the verses that you listed negate what I have clearly
demonstrated here from the Scriptures; and that is that "Eternal Damnation"
is in fact a Biblical doctrine which even Jesus Himself taught.

LL> Yes, it is.  Hell is clearly not forever.

Lee, again, please show me in my previous message where I said that hell is
forever. The record of my own writings from as far back as twelve years ago
clearly shows that I don't believe that hell is forever. Again, you invented
an argument where there is no argument, because that is your style. You like
to debate and stir up trouble. Well, guess what? You won't get away with
that in this echo. You discuss the Scriptures in a peaceful, respectful
manner, or else you don't discuss them at all.

LL> Jesus spoke of "perish" vs. "everlasting life."
By "perish", Jesus meant
LL> both body and soul. Total disintegration.  Nonexistence.  As if one never
LL> had been born.

Lee, I know what it means. You aren't telling me anything that I haven't
taught for years. Utter annihilation is in fact "Eternal
Damnation", just as
Jesus stated. It is an eternal, everlasting, permanent judgment or sentence
which will never be changed. The people who are cast into the Lake of Fire
are extinguished forever, snuffed out eternally, just as you have stated; so
where is the argument? There is none.

I advise you to slow down and learn what I believe, by reading my articles,
instead of being so hasty to jump to erroneous conclusions and assumptions,
as you have clearly done with this issue.

Thanks!

Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS  Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23
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