0n (03 Oct 07) PETER COGGON wrote to CINDY HAGLUND...

 -=> Quoting Cindy Haglund to Peter Coggon <=-
 >> CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS MESSAGE <<

 CH> Yeah they are our family members but we have to remember for their
 CH> sake they're dogs. Their needs are not so hard to fill. The food, the
 CH> water the shelter is fine but what they need most of is exercise and
 CH> exercise and discipline.

 PC> Also you forgot...they also miss people.

 In the sense of being sociable and wanting company yes. But they
  don't dwell on what isn't there. If they act mopey they prolly want
to go for a walk.

Isn't it nuts how simple it is to meet their needs and yet so many dog
owners won't do it? Just go for a walk! And not just go pee and poop.
Dog s need to get rid of excess energy just like people do. Thing is
people usually engage in self abuse rather than simply go for a walk.

.........

 CH> CM puts it like this. A dog's life should be 50 percent exercise, 25
 CH> percent discipline (I guess he means as in behavior training) and 25
 CH> percent affection (at the right time).

 PC> Every dog in my life has been different..like people.  Glad for it.

 :) Yep. And the happiest of both are those who are calm and restful.
The assertive calm are our natural leaders. Only humans elect
aggressive assertive types to follow..
In the wild unbalanced aggressive assertive dominant members are quickly put
down or ousted. (Only humans amass armies, sacrificing innocent
lives in order to oust/protect tyrants.

The ousting side are fueled with propaganda to justify/glorify
a great sacrifice of lives (So the powers that be don't have to get
THEIR hands dirty.)

The protecting side (of the tyrant) of course stresses fear tactics to
engage his pack to kill those who want him ousted.

It's so easy in the wild. In the wolf pack. When a pack leader shows a
weakness hie or she is challenged by another alpha female or make
directly.

The challenged member either as in the case of old age will readily
submit to the challenger (lays down on his side). And life goes on.

If the Challenged member is acting erratic breaking the pack's
rules/boundaries he/she will often fight to the death or if only
wounded driven out of the pack.


Isn't that something? No masses of innocents sacrificed, no territory
destroyed, no need for mutlibillion dollar high tech weapons. hmm.

....

 CH> Of course I think my Cosmo who is 10 and not very active (he's always
 CH> been rather a low energy dog)- a walk around the block twice a day is
 CH> his take. We try to go for longer walks with him and he's okay for
 CH> about a 1/4 mile but then tires out.. he gets asthmatic.

 PC> Try a BullDog... now there is low everything...until you need him.

 Yeah and in some cases, at your throat.

........
        

 CH> I feel sorry for big dogs running with their human. Dr. Fox says dogs
 CH> need to stop every now and then. They're not meant to run long
 CH> distances without stopping. He wasn't too clear on how long too long
 CH> is though. I mean he rollar blades with the big breeds he rehabs..and
 CH> they go for an hour run! hmm. That's big breeds. And in cool weather.
 CH> (I think they take a break half way)..

 PC> A dog has a need to stop all the time to check for territory, and to
 PC> mark it all for himself.   They also have other things they check
 PC> in the wild.

 Nod. :) They do. A lot of people who run with their dogs don't
realize the dog does need to stop. And not just to check things out
but to catch his breath because dogs do not sweat as we do.
They only sweat through their mouth/nose/pads of feet.

When a pack is in migration (quickly moving/hunting) nobody stops
to sniff and explore. On the way back after they've eaten they do that.

So when we go for a walk .. half way migrate, explore on the way back.
....


 PC> 1948 to 2007 has taught me all I need to know about dogs.  My first
 PC> baby pictures are with a BullDog in Scotland.  He was my companion my
 PC> pal

  Must have been a very gooood dog too. :) I do think that some people
get carried away about dogs being around babies but you know it is
scary when you read about a rotie who stole a newborn out of the
grandparents arms. :( Shook it like a rag doll.


I remember when we introed our first dog our newborn daughter. We had
not read nay books on this. We just did what was well instinct. YOu
sit down. The dog is sitting a few feet away. calm. YOu then invite
the dog to come to the baby. The dog sniffs and is t  told to sit
down... YOu let the dog know that the baby is part of you, the baby is
a pack leader too.

Most dogs I have known are very protective of children. They're like
nannies... :) But there's alway some who are not. Who are aggressive
domineering and regard the baby as an intruder. A weak one. And as prey.

........

 PC> and my guardian.   He also started me on the long road to understand
 PC> dogs.   We also had Bull Massifs and collie and that collie was a
 PC> great sheep dog.    Never been bitten by any dog.   Taught at by them
 PC> all
 PC> how not to be a victim.


 Sounds like a great dog and good experience. Dogs teach us a lot. My
Abbie taught me how to be more patient. :) She likes being good. I
have very little patience with dogs or kids who don't. (Who seem to
thrive on negative attention; craving it!)
..........

 PC> I have read all books by the experts, and in my job I had to take a
 PC> course on dogs...which was not correct.  Still reading, and find a
 PC> lot of it interesting stuff, but nothing outstanding.

 What's your opine on what is called ESP (website by this name) re
early sterilization. After reading about it and asking a few friends
it does seem to be better for the dog as well as conveinent for us.
Especially with the females.

Gosh this reminds me of one night taking our walk ; this in
Titusville, FL...  we were coming up to the corner of the block of a
well lit yard. It seemed the ENTIRE NEighborhood of male dogs was
there. BIG dogs. In the yard was a big female dog in heat...   Two of
the pack saw an started to walk toward us and our two little (and
neutered male ). Tom shouted at them to back off, but we picked our
dogs up fast and moved out of there.

Did you know the male dog, up to 90 days after being neutered is still
receptive to a female in heat? It takes that long for the hormones to
wear off.
....

 PC> On the farm in CANADA ... I slept out in the field one night with

 :) OH CANADA!!! :)

 PC> my dog due to livestock being injured.   It was the dog who detected
 PC> the threat. he directed where to look and it also was first contact
 PC> with me in support.   I have shot over the heads of wild dog packs
 PC> that send them packing ...and they never comeback.

 Hey new thread> Be glad you didn't live in Africa at the time. 
 More on this later.
 
 One ting I love about farm /country life is we can let our dogs run
free... sure they get ticks and fleas but those can be taken care of.
Unless the dog is abused/neglected he'll always come home. Some never
run off the farm. They stay by us all the time. That's not just loyalty
it's the fact they're comfortable with living with us. They like us. )
..........

 PC> Wolfs ... seen them.   Admire them for what they are, and enjoyed
 PC> too what they have taught me about how a dog might live in the wild
 PC> on it's own like the cat does.

Do you remember a documentary on wolves? Where it's aid the only
reason they'd ever raid a ranchers livestock at all is starvation. We
take away their habitat./ hunt out all the game.. What do we expect?

The doc was attempting to diminish the 'evil' image wolves have had
for a long time. They're not evil. They're hungry.

....

 PC> I have always checked the Rusty for ticks, and other things, but
 PC> he is lucky I guess due to meds i give him as well natural stuff
 PC> in his food.

  Yeah.. our family's HUngarian Vizula ran out up the hill we lived
on .. wooded. All the time and never got ticks. He had a flea /tick
collar on and would get a flea tip now and then but other than that he
was one h

It's a shame though we had to give him away my then toddler brother
stepped on his tail and well.. Gus bit him. :( This is why it's so
vital to keep toddlers away from dogs until they learn that dogs are
not toys. My baby brother was always after Gus to pull his tail or
ears. Gus was NEVER aggressive and would always get up and moved
always move out of reach. But I guess that last encounter was  'the last
straw.' As in you push something hard enough it's going to fall over.
.......


 PC> In Scotland we did the same.   They all ran free in the village.  No
 PC> problems until the city people wanted village life....then our life
 PC> disappeared.  Same thing happened here.

 It's only in ""highly developed""" countries you
see dogs with issues.

 CM points this out having grown up on a farm in Mexico with many
 dogs about. He says if you notice the homeless say in LA, the dogs
follow the humans... just as they do out in the country. No leashes,
no distraction while hunting. The human is the pack leader very easily
.. dogs prefer to follow. That's why we get along with them so well.
.....
            
 CH> Now that's true loyalty. Not having to have a leash at all.

 PC> Depends on the breed.    The pack moves as a group

 Breed doesn't mater though I'd give considerable exception to say
shih tzu  A lot of catlike nature in this breed.

Within a pack there are leaders, who gladly submit to the
alpha leading the whole. MOther dogs are pack leaders to their pups.
Older dogs are leaders to the younger ones.
.....

 CH> Really? Hmm. I wonder. How did  that work? The cures in Scotland. I
 CH> take by the poisoned cats you mean the practice of laying out poison
 CH> against unwanted animals on one's property?

 PC> Try Rat poison.   My Grandmother's forumla saved every cat's life
 PC> from Rat Poison.  She was well known for this for 100 miles.

 That's what I thought. There's been a custom in some places of laying
it out to deter and stop neighboring dogs from doing their business on
one's yard.

I did it a different way. At a residence in Rochester, NY, A nice quite
neighborhood. OUr neighbors old bloodhound (not sure what it was but it
was very fat and old) would meander over to our front yard every
single morning like clock work to do his poop. Now it's not the dog's
fault. It's natural for them to go poop outside their own territory
and they don't know about yards and neighbors.  So one fine day we were
sitting out back enjoying our above ground pool when I happened to say
rather not quietly (and water carries sound you know)... I wish they
(Our neighbors) would keep their dog in their own yard...)

VIOLA they finally put up a backyard fence! Ta dah!!!!!

I think perhaps dog owners just don't notice where their dog is going
until it's pointed out to them in one way or another.

Everywhere we have lived except here where all the back yards are
fenced in, and there's a poop  pick up law as well as a leash law...
there has been a wandering dog or two and our yard was alwaays a
favorite.

........

 CH> I read of that in James Harris's book. (Another great one!)
 CH> *(All creatures large and small; and the sequel.. Got both in a
 CH> tome at a discount book store.) Have you  read it?

 PC> James Harris is from the same area as my family in Yorkshire.

  Yeah. I Love his book. :)

.................

re : not going overboard..

 Same here. We don't do that except now that we live in the deep south
and they don't have 'winter coats'... I have made a couple flannel dog
'coats' if it does get very cold in our winter. It does sometime.
.......

 CH> As long as you are the pack leader your dog will be your follower no
 CH> matter where you live. But if a dog was running free out in the
 CH> country once, he may not adjust well to indoor life. He needs walking.

 PC> All our dogs in Scotland were out door dogs. In the winter they came

 yeah .. we do pamper them too much. The doggie care places bank on
human emotions. There are pricy doggie hotels ...  each room being
equipped with a bed, and TV . (rolling eyes big time)...and they
get special sap treatments. (I wonder if they get to go for long
walks.)

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