On Wed, 07 May 2008 08:04:27 -0700, Matt Ion 
wrote:

>Josh Hill wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 May 2008 20:29:01 -0700, Mel  wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andrew Hackard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I apologize if I missed this in the archives.
>>>>>
>>>>> In "The Fall of Night," it's heavily implied
that Londo did not see 
>>>>> anything when he looked at Kosh because of his
connections to the 
>>>>> Shadows. When Morden took his buddies to kill Kosh in
"Interludes and 
>>>>> Examinations," did he also see nothing, or did he
see Kosh's true form 
>>>>> because Kosh wasn't bothering to project, or something
else again?
>>>>>
>>>>> I know this is utterly trivial, but I was re-reading
the books and I 
>>>>> got curious. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> I always thought Londo's not seeing Kosh was based more on
his lack of 
>>>> any real faith (or lack of a soul, if you prefer), rather than his 
>>>> association with the Shadows.
>>>>
>>> Kosh was actually there, whatever form/illusion he projected, so it's 
>>> strange that Londo would see "nothing."
>>>
>>> I figure since the Vorlons never visited Centauri Prime like they did 
>>> Earth or Minbar, Londo wasn't "programmed" to see
any special Vorlon 
>>> image. Makes you wonder how he explained Sheridan not going splat :-)
>> 
>> I've always assumed it was because Londo was "touched by the
shadows."
>
>Plausible, but then that doesn't explain Morden being able to see Kosh.
>
>> Besides, didn't the dying emperor see Kosh?
>
>This is true... although unlike the others who saw Kosh when he rescued 
>Sheridan, and thought they were seeing an "angel", Turhan knew what a 
>Vorlon was, and knew that he was seeing a Vorlon, rather than expecting 
>to see some sort of religious apparition.
>
>This lends weight to the supposition that Londo's "lack of faith of any 
>sort" was what led to him not seeing anything - the Centauri
"faiths" 
>appear to be largely pagan-like, based around any number of minor gods, 
>mostly ascended from their own ranks.  They don't, that I recall seeing, 
>believe in any sort of single "higher power", and certainly
don't appear 
>to have any form of seraphim figure in their mythology.
>
>The Vorlons not having visited the Centauri previously would play into 
>this as well (if that is indeed the case, I don't recall if that was 
>ever stated in the series).  Most of the other races, rather than being 
>"genetically manipulated" to view the Vorlons as god-like figures, I 
>think were simply conditioned that way through their history and 
>mythology, based on Vorlons appearing to their people through history.
>
>I don't know so much that Kosh would have needed to "project" an image 
>of appearing to each race in the form of that race, so much as that's 
>how the conditioning had taught them to see a Vorlon - creating God in 
>their own image, as it were.
>
>(Admittedly, I don't have, nor have I read any of the script books, so 
>all this is based purely on what I've seen in the show... those with the 
>script book may have different insights).
>
>It would be interesting to know what Vir would have seen, had he been there.

Actually, while I don't remember JMS actually commenting on it, I
think the Centauri HAD been visited by the Vorlons.  They did have
telepaths, and prophets, although they might have been evolved
spontaneously.  I think that Londo saw nothing because, in his case,
the shadow influence blocked the 'projection' from Kosh.

Now, in Morden's case, I think that he probably got an 'enhanced' view
of Kosh from the Shadow perspective, from his 'companions!'  He didn't
need the projection.

Just my own humble opinion!

Charlie
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32