From: "Randy" 

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You're just as guilty.=20
  "Rich"  wrote in message news:4290ceaf{at}w3.nls.net...
     You should expect to be able to defend whatever nonsense you post.  =
If you post nonsense should you not expect to be called on it?  Should =
you not expect to defend it if questioned?  Maybe you and mike miller =
believe that you are above being challenged.  mike miller we all know = has
an agenda.  Look at just this thread to see how when questioned he = either
changes the topic or declares that he has nothing more to say = never
actually defending any of his claims.

  Rich

    "Randy"  wrote in message news:4290b4e2$1{at}w3.nls.net...
    In our little corner of the world, Shupak acts like a kid with a new =
chain=20
    saw: everything is game for cutting down.

    As for his behavior here, here's a thought: I don't belive that MSFT =
offers=20
    training on being a boorish duplicitous asshole-they activiely seek =
it out=20
    and reward it.

    Have a look at http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/buscond/ and do =
a=20
    search for where the word "honest" appears.

    Then I saw this:

    "You may also call the Business Conduct Line at 1-877-320-MSFT =
(6738). If=20
    you are calling from outside the United States, you may make a =
collect call=20
    to the Business Conduct Line by accessing an international operator =
and=20
    asking to place a collect call to 1-704-540-0139. The Business =
Conduct Line=20
    is a dedicated, toll-free phone line that is available to you 24 =
hours a=20
    day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It is operated by an external=20
    third-party vendor that has trained professionals to take your =
calls, in=20
    confidence, and report your concerns to the Microsoft Director of =
Compliance=20
    for appropriate action. Your phone calls to the Business Conduct =
Line may be=20
    made anonymously. "

    'nuff said?


    "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
    news:fb0191li9skdil3l444686d38bgr5un24f{at}4ax.com...
    >
    > I think Joe Barr was just the first to see through Rich Shupak's
    > diversionary tactics [among other thigns] in online discussions.
    >
    > What I wonder is if Microsoft's online persona go through some =
manner of
    > training, because many of them seem to use the same tactics over =
and
    > over.
    >
    >  /m
    >
    >
    > On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:18:26 -0500, "Randy"  wrote:
    >
    >>Who whould have thought that Joe Barr is right.
    >>  "Rich"  wrote in message news:428eb385{at}w3.nls.net...
    >>     I find it hard to believe you can be such an idiot and not =
know it.=20
    >> Read over your spin in this thread starting with your claims that =

    >> everyone except the itunes store is a loser.  You are saying more =
than=20
    >> the obvious that apple's investment in their itunes store is a =
bet.  I=20
    >> can't believe you have the audacity to state in one sentence that =
you are=20
    >> voicing no opinion on the itunes store both after doing so and =
before=20
    >> doing so again.  You are spinning so fast you can't see.
    >>
    >>     As for your follow on bullshit, there is no lock in and never =
was.=20
    >> Unlike apple, Microsoft provides choice.  Go ahead, continue your =

    >> dishonesty, and pretend you have none.  Make sure you mention how =
you=20
    >> have no choice everytime you mention your use any of the very =
large set=20
    >> of non-Microsoft hardware, software, and services Microsoft =
enables for=20
    >> Windows.
    >>
    >>  Rich
    >>
    >>    "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
    >> news:mg5t819ipve721e41u345o5l2ebiv5p3ev{at}4ax.com...
    >>    >   Keep spinning if that is what you need to live with =
yourself.
    >>
    >>    I live with myself just fine Rich.  I find no need to let =
computers
    >>    affect my living situation.  But I have to wonder why you are
    >>    projecting?
    >>
    >>
    >>    >   Do you really think the itunes store would sell the same =
if apple=20
    >> did not lock in ipod users so that this was the only store they =
can use?
    >>
    >>    I voice no opinion on the iTunes store.  I merely say that =
Apple's=20
    >> focus
    >>    is on iTunes and not necessarily iPod.   iPod is the means, =
iTunes is
    >>    the end.  And Microsoft is the also-ran, perhaps not even =
that.
    >>    Probably more of "too late to the party".
    >>
    >>    Whenever Microsoft feels the need to trot out Mr. Gates to =
expound=20
    >> upon
    >>    some "new direction", I know that Microsft has
found themelves =
behind
    >>    the market leader and have belatedly realized that they need =
to try to
    >>    catch up.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>    >> If users are not locked in, why would they pick the itunes =
store?
    >>
    >>    Coming from a Microsoft employee, that is a very interesting =
comment.
    >>
    >>    I mean, if the users were not locked into Windows, would they =
have
    >>    chosen IE over Netscape?  It seems that Microsoft execs' =
emails=20
    >> entered
    >>    as evidence in the anti-trist trials have stated that =
Microsoft needed
    >>    to leverage the Windows monopoly in order to make IE the =
defacto=20
    >> browser
    >>    "of choice".
    >>
    >>    If the users were not locked in, would they choose WIndows =
Media in=20
    >> the
    >>    percentages that they currently do?
    >>
    >>     /m
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>    On Fri, 20 May 2005 18:56:30 -0700, "Rich"  wrote:
    >>
    >>    >   Keep spinning if that is what you need to live with =
yourself.
    >>    >
    >>    >   Do you really think the itunes store would sell the same =
if apple=20
    >> did not lock in ipod users so that this was the only store they =
can use?
    >>    >
    >>    >   If users are not locked in, why would they pick the itunes =
store?
    >>    >
    >>    >Rich
    >>    >
    >>    >  "Mike '/m'"  wrote
in message=20
    >> news:s93t81dqsvf1bvef5vjpukf6n5ukvof7dp{at}4ax.com...
    >>    >
    >>    >  It must really suck for your employer to be the loser in =
the online
    >>    >  music race, eh Rich?
    >>    >
    >>    >  Despite what you are trying to spin me as saying, I am =
actually=20
    >> saying
    >>    >  that Apple is betting on iTunes (an/or its video =
successor), not=20
    >> iPod.
    >>    >  I say no more or no less.  Despite what you try to spin.
    >>    >
    >>    >  Give those rotator cuffs a rest for a change, will ya?
    >>    >
    >>    >   /m
    >>    >
    >>    >
    >>    >
    >>    >
    >>    >
    >>    >  On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:15:01 -0700, "Rich"
 wrote:
    >>    >
    >>    >  >   If you weren't blinded by your agenda, mike, you could =
see the=20
    >> obvious and how silly you sound.
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >   Why will phones win out, for the same reason
phones are =
winning=20
    >> over many PDA users?  Why carry two devices when you can carry =
one?
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >   Apple will follow Microsoft and I believe real in =
getting their=20
    >> software onto phones.  There is a difference from the ipod.  =
Unless apple=20
    >> restricts their OEM licensees from offering their users multiple =
choices,=20
    >> the phone manufacturers and carriers have no reason to lock in =
their=20
    >> customers to the itunes store like apple does.
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >Rich
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >  "Mike '/m'" 
wrote in message=20
    >> news:55ns81lbitvndvtrbj4407ueh8f7cbm5bo{at}4ax.com...
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >  It's not iPod that Apple is betting on, but iTunes (and =
its=20
    >> video
    >>    >  >  follow-up).  Apple is already putting iPod software on =
cell=20
    >> phones to
    >>    >  >  allow them to access iTunes.
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >  Gates' comment was more of a specious smokescreen than =
anything=20
    >> else.
    >>    >  >  Apple caught him napping in this space, and now he has =
to look=20
    >> like he
    >>    >  >  was out in front all along.
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >   /m
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >  On Fri, 20 May 2005 14:01:23 +0100, Adam=20
    >> 
    >>    >  >  wrote:
    >>    >  >
    >>    >  >  >Randy wrote:
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >> I just 1 GB on my phone via miniSD-and I want =
MORE....
    >>    >  >  >>
    >>    >  >  >> 500+ of AAC-encoded songs-sweet!
    >>    >  >  >>
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >Ditto. I agree with Gates that the Ipod
won't last & =
that the=20
    >> phones
    >>    >  >  >will eat it's lunch. I have a nokia 6230
which I got =
coz it has=20
    >> an MP3
    >>    >  >  >player & an fm radio....
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >A mondo bizarro bit is that if you are
listening to the =
radio=20
    >> or the mp3
    >>    >  >  >player & someone calls you get the
selected ringing =
tones....so=20
    >> if like
    >>    >  >  >me you often set your phone to silent for
meetings etc =
& then=20
    >> "forget"
    >>    >  >  >to re-enable the ringer....then you are
left wondering =
what's=20
    >> going on
    >>    >  >  >coz the music/radio just suddenly goes....silent....
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >I had a look at the smart phones (Pocket
pc, symbian =
etc) & was=20
    >> very
    >>    >  >  >impressed but {at} the end of the day...I just wanted =
music +=20
    >> radio & a
    >>    >  >  >nice neat (small) phone.
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >I like the way most of them now try wifi
first for any =
net=20
    >> related things.
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >I reckon we're 2-3 years out from most people's =
"personal"=20
    >> computer
    >>    >  >  >being the smartphone in their pocket.
    >>    >  >  >
    >>    >  >  >Adam
    >=20


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You're just as guilty. 

  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:4290ceaf{at}w3.nls.net...
     You
should expect to be =
able to=20
  defend whatever nonsense you post.  If you post nonsense should =
you not=20
  expect to be called on it?  Should you not expect to defend it if =

  questioned?  Maybe you and mike miller believe that you are above =
being=20
  challenged.  mike miller we all know has an agenda.  Look at =
just=20
  this thread to see how when questioned he either changes the topic or =
declares=20
  that he has nothing more to say never actually defending any of his=20
  claims.
   
  Rich
   
  
    "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:4290b4e2$1{at}w3.nls.net...In=20
    our little corner of the world, Shupak acts like a kid with a new =
chain=20
    saw: everything is game for cutting
down.As for his =
behavior=20
    here, here's a thought: I don't belive that MSFT offers training =
on=20
    being a boorish duplicitous asshole-they activiely seek it out =
and=20
    reward it.Have a look at http://www.micros" target="new">http://www.micros=">http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/buscond/">http://www.micros=
oft.com/mscorp/legal/buscond/=20
    and do a search for where the word "honest"
appears.Then =
I saw=20
    this:"You may also call the Business Conduct Line at =
1-877-320-MSFT=20
    (6738). If you are calling from outside the United States, you =
may make=20
    a collect call to the Business Conduct Line by accessing an=20
    international operator and asking to place a collect call to=20
    1-704-540-0139. The Business Conduct Line is a dedicated, =
toll-free=20
    phone line that is available to you 24 hours a day, 7 days a =
week, 365=20
    days a year. It is operated by an external third-party vendor =
that has=20
    trained professionals to take your calls, in confidence, and =
report your=20
    concerns to the Microsoft Director of Compliance for appropriate =
action.=20
    Your phone calls to the Business Conduct Line may be made =
anonymously.=20
    "'nuff
said?"Mike '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
    news:fb0191li9sk=
dil3l444686d38bgr5un24f{at}4ax.com...>>=20
    I think Joe Barr was just the first to see through Rich =
Shupak's>=20
    diversionary tactics [among other thigns] in online=20
    discussions.>> What I wonder is if
Microsoft's online =
persona=20
    go through some manner of> training, because many of them =
seem to use=20
    the same tactics over and>
over.>> =20
   
/m<shrug>>>>
On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:18:26 =
-0500,=20
    "Randy" <{at}>
wrote:>>>Who whould have thought =
that Joe=20
    Barr is right.>>  "Rich"
<{at}> wrote in message =
news:428eb385{at}w3.nls.net...>=
>    =20
    I find it hard to believe you can be such an idiot and not know it.=20
    >> Read over your spin in this thread starting
with your =
claims=20
    that >> everyone except the itunes store is a
loser.  =
You are=20
    saying more than >> the obvious that apple's
investment in =
their=20
    itunes store is a bet.  I >> can't
believe you have =
the=20
    audacity to state in one sentence that you are
>> voicing =
no=20
    opinion on the itunes store both after doing so and before =
>>=20
    doing so again.  You are spinning so fast you can't=20
   
see.>>>>    
As for your =
follow on=20
    bullshit, there is no lock in and never was. >> Unlike =
apple,=20
    Microsoft provides choice.  Go ahead, continue your =
>>=20
    dishonesty, and pretend you have none.  Make sure you mention =
how you=20
    >> have no choice everytime you mention your use any of =
the very=20
    large set >> of non-Microsoft hardware, software, and =
services=20
    Microsoft enables for >> =
Windows.>>>> =20
   
Rich>>>>   
"Mike '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
    >> news:mg5t819ipve=
721e41u345o5l2ebiv5p3ev{at}4ax.com...>>   =20
    >   Keep spinning if that is what you need to
live with =

   
yourself.>>>>   
I live with =
myself just=20
    fine Rich.  I find no need to let=20
    computers>>   
affect my living =
situation. =20
    But I have to wonder why you
are>>   =20
   
projecting?>>>>>>   =20
    >   Do you really think the itunes store would
sell the =
same if=20
    apple >> did not lock in ipod users so that
this was the =
only=20
    store they can
use?>>>>   
I =
voice no=20
    opinion on the iTunes store.  I merely say that Apple's =
>>=20
    focus>>    is on
iTunes and not necessarily =

    iPod.   iPod is the means, iTunes =
is>>   =20
    the end.  And Microsoft is the also-ran, perhaps not even=20
    that.>>    Probably
more of "too late to =
the=20
   
party".>>>>   
Whenever Microsoft =
feels=20
    the need to trot out Mr. Gates to expound >>=20
    upon>>    some
"new direction", I know that =

    Microsft has found themelves
behind>>    =
the market=20
    leader and have belatedly realized that they need to try=20
    to>>    catch=20
    =
up.>>>>>>>>   =20
    >> If users are not locked in, why would they pick the itunes=20
   
store?>>>>   
Coming from a =
Microsoft=20
    employee, that is a very interesting=20
   
comment.>>>>   
I mean, if the =
users were=20
    not locked into Windows, would they =
have>>   =20
    chosen IE over Netscape?  It seems that Microsoft execs' emails =

    >>
entered>>    as evidence
in =
the=20
    anti-trist trials have stated that Microsoft=20
    needed>>    to
leverage the Windows =
monopoly in=20
    order to make IE the defacto >>=20
    browser>>    "of=20
   
choice".>>>>   
If the users were =
not=20
    locked in, would they choose WIndows Media in >>=20
    the>>    percentages
that they currently=20
   
do?>>>>    
/m<probably=20
    =
not...>>>>>>>>>  &nb=
sp;=20
    On Fri, 20 May 2005 18:56:30 -0700, "Rich" <{at}>=20
   
wrote:>>>>   
>   =
Keep=20
    spinning if that is what you need to live with=20
    yourself.>>    =
>>>   =20
    >   Do you really think the itunes store would
sell the =
same if=20
    apple >> did not lock in ipod users so that
this was the =
only=20
    store they can use?>>   =20
    >>>   
>   If users are not =
locked=20
    in, why would they pick the itunes =
store?>>   =20
    >>>    =
>Rich>>   =20
    >>>   
>  "Mike '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
    >> news:s93t81dqsvf=
1bvef5vjpukf6n5ukvof7dp{at}4ax.com...>>   =20
    >>>   
>  It must really suck =
for your=20
    employer to be the loser in the
online>>    =

    >  music race, eh
Rich?>>   =20
    >>>   
>  Despite what you are =
trying to=20
    spin me as saying, I am actually >>=20
    saying>>   
>  that Apple is =
betting on=20
    iTunes (an/or its video successor), not >>=20
    iPod.>>   
>  I say no more or no=20
    less.  Despite what you try to =
spin.>>   =20
    >>>   
>  Give those rotator =
cuffs a=20
    rest for a change, will
ya?>>   =20
    >>>   
>  =20
    /m>>   
>>>   =20
    >>>    =
>>>   =20
    >>>    =
>>>   =20
    >  On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:15:01 -0700, "Rich"
<{at}>=20
    wrote:>>    =
>>>   =20
    >  >   If you weren't blinded
by your agenda, =
mike, you=20
    could see the >> obvious and how silly you=20
    sound.>>   
> =20
    >>>   
>  >   Why =
will=20
    phones win out, for the same reason phones are winning
>> =
over=20
    many PDA users?  Why carry two devices when you can carry=20
    one?>>   
> =20
    >>>   
>  >   Apple =
will=20
    follow Microsoft and I believe real in getting their >> =
software=20
    onto phones.  There is a difference from the ipod.  Unless =
apple=20
    >> restricts their OEM licensees from offering
their users =

    multiple choices, >> the phone manufacturers
and carriers =
have no=20
    reason to lock in their >> customers to the
itunes store =
like=20
    apple does.>>   
> =20
    >>>   
> =20
    >Rich>>   
> =20
    >>>   
>  >  "Mike '/m'" =
<mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
    >> news:55ns81lbitv=
ndvtrbj4407ueh8f7cbm5bo{at}4ax.com...>>   =20
    > 
>>>   
>  >  =
It's not=20
    iPod that Apple is betting on, but iTunes (and its >>=20
    video>>   
>  >  =
follow-up). =20
    Apple is already putting iPod software on cell
>> phones=20
    to>>   
>  >  allow them to =
access=20
    iTunes.>>   
> =20
    >>>   
>  >  Gates' =
comment was=20
    more of a specious smokescreen than anything >>=20
    else.>>   
>  >  Apple =
caught him=20
    napping in this space, and now he has to look >> like=20
    he>>   
>  >  was out in =
front all=20
    along.>>   
> =20
    >>>   
>  >  =20
    /m>>    > =20
    >>>   
> =20
    >>>   
>  >  On Fri, 20 =
May 2005=20
    14:01:23 +0100, Adam >> <mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moesmailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes">mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes
A>>>>   =20
    >  > 
wrote:>>    =
> =20
    >>>   
>  >  >Randy=20
    wrote:>>   
>  > =20
    >>>   
>  >  >> I =
just 1=20
    GB on my phone via miniSD-and I want =
MORE....>>   =20
    >  > 
>>>>    =
> =20
    >  >> 500+ of AAC-encoded=20
    songs-sweet!>>   
>  > =20
   
>>>>   
>  > =20
    >>>   
>  >  >Ditto. =
I agree=20
    with Gates that the Ipod won't last & that the
>>=20
    phones>>   
>  >  >will =
eat it's=20
    lunch. I have a nokia 6230 which I got coz it has
>> an=20
    MP3>>   
>  >  >player =
& an=20
    fm radio....>>   
>  > =20
    >>>   
>  >  >A mondo =
bizarro=20
    bit is that if you are listening to the radio
>> or the=20
    mp3>>   
>  >  >player =
&=20
    someone calls you get the selected ringing tones....so
>> =
if=20
    like>>   
>  >  >me you =
often=20
    set your phone to silent for meetings etc & then
>>=20
   
"forget">>   
>  >  >to=20
    re-enable the ringer....then you are left wondering what's =
>>=20
    going on>>   
>  >  >coz =
the=20
    music/radio just suddenly =
goes....silent....>>   =20
    >  > 
>>>   
> =20
    > 
><G>>>   
>  =
> =20
    >>>   
>  >  >I had a =
look at=20
    the smart phones (Pocket pc, symbian etc) & was
>>=20
    very>>   
>  >  =
>impressed but {at}=20
    the end of the day...I just wanted music + >>
radio &=20
    a>>   
>  >  >nice neat =
(small)=20
    phone.>>   
>  > =20
    >>>   
>  >  >I like =
the way=20
    most of them now try wifi first for any net >> related=20
    things.>>   
>  > =20
    >>>   
>  >  >I =
reckon we're=20
    2-3 years out from most people's "personal"
>>=20
    computer>>   
>  >  =
>being the=20
    smartphone in their
pocket.>>   
>  =

    > 
>>>   
>  > =20
    >Adam>


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