Hello Cindy.,

 -=> Quoting Cindy Haglund to Peter Coggon <=-

 CH> We suspect Abbie wsa mistreated too. We are advised by that dog guy
 CH> that you should NOT milly coddle a dog who shows fear. This only
 CH> reinforces the fear. Think about it. I'm guilty of this. :(

  My mother did give comfort to Rusty when he was a pup due to what
he went through from birth in August to October November being in
a SPCA hospital.  He was a mess and they did say he could possibly
die due to what he went through...but she looked after his stiches
and other surgery, and yeah she milly coddled him, he was so sick.

 CH> Ignore the fearful and reward the behavior that is good behavior (just
 CH> being friendly calm assertive is what the dog nees.). Being a calm
 CH> assetive person helps our dogs be calm submissive (relaxed). I know
 CH> this is true because I have seen it with our Abbie. :)

  I am doing this now, and it was worse, it seems over time he
is coming around, but I still wonder.  He really waits on the coldest
day for the plow to turnaround at the top of the street to make
a pass... just goes nuts in the yard, then runs inside to get warmed
up, and waits if it is garbage day.

Just loud engines and big trucks and like, that set him off.
Just like a switch inside...I see his whole face change.

 CH> Abbie however still dislikes getting into her harness/leash. She must
 CH> have had a very traumatic puppyhood. :( I can't imagine!

When I bring that out...Rusty knows the deal.   Also where to stop for
the treats as per training school.

 CH> At first we'd go after her and reassure her .. this only increased her
 CH> running away. We'd then get annoyed which only made it worse.
 CH>
 CH> So my sister who has also read the book I am obessed with, suggested
 CH> IGNORE HER SHYING away behavior. When she seees you getting Cosmo
 CH> ready and getting her harness too, she KNOWS what is next. Don't go
 CH> after her. Call her, then wait a minute. She'll come. And she does.

Tried the ignoring, and correctional stuff...now looking before he
is too old and dead before I figure it all out.

 CH> Some days she comes right away if we stand at the door. Other days I
 CH> thinks he wants to make a game out of it I swear. I think she likes us
 CH> to go after her. lol. Silly girl. She's very happy go lucky and loves
 CH> to be good. :) She's a real sweetie.

Yes... Rusty does have a game, and also a time to be and want to be
left for a quiet time and place where I don't bother him.  His cat
is also there with him.

 CH> One other thing she does I wonder about. Have an of you see a dog do
 CH> this? :) Sometiems she lays on her side and moves her front paws
 CH> together like she's praying for something. :) It always gets us to rub
 CH> her tummy or give her a chew stick. We think that is what it is. But
 CH> it is cute ! It's her way of talking to us I guess. And how she will
 CH> come lick my ankle when I'm on here and she wants to go out or it's
 CH> supper time. I guess you might say she has ME trained. lol.

My dog used to do that, and reach for my hands and hold them and direct
them to where he wanted to be scratched.

For food and things...it is a bark, or a nawing sensation on my arm.
Or he takes my hand and pulls or lets go and goes to where he can
show me what he wants.  He has a lot of things to do to communicate.

 CH> Well we're supposed to leaders of the pack all the time.
 CH> Incosnistancey makes them neurotic. So I always make her wait  when she
 CH> comes to get me to do something.

Oh ...

 CH> Cesar says when you are going for a walk the dogs should always follow
 CH> YOU out the door. We're working on that. They do walk at our side or
 CH> behind us. No problem there. But getting out of the house seems easier
 CH> when they're in front until we get out there and set off and then they
 CH> take their places.

Thats whenever...I get out first or he does, or I open and invite him
out.  He does wait.

 CH> Some might say : what difference does it make if the dog is in front.
 CH> they know they're on a leash and who is holding it. hmm. Debatable?
 
aaah I have tired it both ways and sometimes we both tried to squeeze
thru together....now thats fun.
 
 PC> motors, which is something he associates with something in
 PC> his passed.

 CH> CM says they don't remember details just the response. I imagine one
 CH> way to desensitize the dog to loud noises would be to expose the dog
 CH> to the noise and act calm yourself. Ignore his reaction; ignore the
 CH> noise yourself. Sooner or later the dog will learn to ignore the noise
 CH> too. 
 CH> see if that works. Pay no attention to the dog when he reacts to the
 CH> nose. Only after he calms down reward him with affection. I think that
 CH> is what CM would advise. :)

Tried that...one trainer even tried with a collar with those hooks in
it, and he still went after the source.  They all tired...last one
had Rusty hungup like the gallows trying to stop it.   Just didn't
work...so I just keep him calm and the guys driving the trucks
help out too..many know the old guy now.

 CH> She probably just wants to be assured the dog will be cared for
 CH> whether by you or someone else. If you do not want to take care of the
 CH> dog do give it to someone who will. :) Don't punish either of you by
 CH> doing want you don't want to do. The dog will know just as any social
 CH> critter would. It would be hard for you to meet his needs as well as
 CH> your own in a forced relationships.
 CH> ......

My signature is also on the SPCA form.
When they asked what and why about him for adoption I said he would
be a family member.   If I given him away to someone, and the money
it would not sit with me, as he is a member of my immediate family.
 
 CH> CM would say you are humanizing him. We all do this. The dogs needs
 CH> are very simple. And just like us they do not like being sick or
 CH> unable to take a long walk say. Dogs love to walk. They need to. It's
 CH> wired into them. ... Read Cesar's Way and you'll understand. This guy
 CH> explains dogs completely and understandably.

   Rusty already gets a walk in the morning, and when I can I get him
into the woods for a real run and he loves it I know by the way
he goes to the van when he has had enough...or he wants the treat.

I started with dogs when I was born.   I have always had dogs with
me, and I know I am part of the pack.  I know about the sleeping
arrangements and watched their throwback activities.

On the farm, I went with my dog, and if I slept the dog was at
my back,and when he moved I did too.

Read some of these guys and been at work into courses with dogs
and how to get bitten, and after it all... they haven't told me
much the dogs over the years have not already taught me...plus
some.

 CH> We had a lab mix from a shelter years ago who was scared of
 CH> everything and allergic to everything. NO CM back then. If I had had
 CH> that book maybe we could have helped but this dog was impossible mostly
 CH> d due to the allergies.

 Had a lab mix...same stuff....and my mother taught me some cures
they did in Scotland.   My grandmother had a knack for bring back
poisoned cats.

 CH> We ended up penning her outside in a kennel . She was fine there.
 CH> Then we gave her up when we moved from NYS to FL.

  I have never ever penned our dog in a outside kennel or chained them
They have absolute freedom to roam.

Never given up a pet yet to move...

 CH> Cesar says in Mexico dogs ran free. The natural pack order. Dogs that
 CH> were kept by farmers were there mostly as working dogs, but often
 CH> became pets. YET they stayed doors. They lived the life of wild dogs
 CH> but they recognized their humans as their pack leaders. ((Food and
 CH> affection are every dog's basic need next to lots of exercise.))

  Seen that in South America....and not afraid of anyone of them.

  Told them and owners that they have nothing to compare to my dogs.

 CH> His grandfather never tolerated aggression in the dogs that lived with
 CH> them. He'd s imply brake up any fights. The dogs saw him and the
 CH> children as their pack leaders. People did not baby their dogs there.
 CH> They didn't even use leashes.

  Sounds like the farm and home I was brought up in..but then we only
had one dog...and he was smart.  At least he supervised me, and kept
me out of trouble and harm's way.

 CH> Dogs in other countries are allowed to be dogs. Here in this country
 CH> we humanize them and that is why so many have big behavior problems. I
 CH> saying this is what Cesar says and I do agree.

  Humanize them...I guess so.   They seem to respond better.  I watch
or hear a bad dream, and I always wake Rusty up.   A gentle hand
and "hi Rusty..bad dream go back to sleep... night mate"
 
 PC> and she will never convince me to have a dog like they seem
 PC> to do in Brazil.   My dog is inside, and sleeps at my door.
 PC> I feel he is returning my care and my time with him and
 PC> also allowing him a place to be alone when he wants peace.

 CH> As long as you are the pack leader your dog will be your follower no
 CH> matter where you live. But if a dog was running free out in the
 CH> country once, he may not adjust well to indoor life. He needs walking.

When we have a proweler, we both pile out the door together, I guess
safety in numbers, and I depend on him as the Big Dog to do the bark
that puts our house off limits....heard this via the grapevine
that our home has a big dog.

Our dogs always go between country and town.  They have camped
and roughed it with a campfire, and liked it all.  But
still as you say like that walk with someone....that is something
that has always been a part of them.
 
 PC> My dog and his cat...remind me of the cartoon  "Ruff n Ready".
 CH> I Love cats but sadly am allergic to them.

Thats too bad...

Anyhow...have to go...tea time, and a boo outside for Rusty and
I then off to bed.... going north tomorrow to look at the 
leafs turning red.

ttfn

Peter



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