From: "Rich" 

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   You should expect to be able to defend whatever nonsense you post.  =
If you post nonsense should you not expect to be called on it?  Should =
you not expect to defend it if questioned?  Maybe you and mike miller =
believe that you are above being challenged.  mike miller we all know = has
an agenda.  Look at just this thread to see how when questioned he = either
changes the topic or declares that he has nothing more to say = never
actually defending any of his claims.

Rich

  "Randy"  wrote in message news:4290b4e2$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  In our little corner of the world, Shupak acts like a kid with a new =
chain=20
  saw: everything is game for cutting down.

  As for his behavior here, here's a thought: I don't belive that MSFT =
offers=20
  training on being a boorish duplicitous asshole-they activiely seek it =
out=20
  and reward it.

  Have a look at http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/buscond/ and do a =

  search for where the word "honest" appears.

  Then I saw this:

  "You may also call the Business Conduct Line at 1-877-320-MSFT (6738). =
If=20
  you are calling from outside the United States, you may make a collect =
call=20
  to the Business Conduct Line by accessing an international operator =
and=20
  asking to place a collect call to 1-704-540-0139. The Business Conduct =
Line=20
  is a dedicated, toll-free phone line that is available to you 24 hours =
a=20
  day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It is operated by an external=20
  third-party vendor that has trained professionals to take your calls, =
in=20
  confidence, and report your concerns to the Microsoft Director of =
Compliance=20
  for appropriate action. Your phone calls to the Business Conduct Line =
may be=20
  made anonymously. "

  'nuff said?


  "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
  news:fb0191li9skdil3l444686d38bgr5un24f{at}4ax.com...
  >
  > I think Joe Barr was just the first to see through Rich Shupak's
  > diversionary tactics [among other thigns] in online discussions.
  >
  > What I wonder is if Microsoft's online persona go through some =
manner of
  > training, because many of them seem to use the same tactics over and
  > over.
  >
  >  /m
  >
  >
  > On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:18:26 -0500, "Randy"  wrote:
  >
  >>Who whould have thought that Joe Barr is right.
  >>  "Rich"  wrote in message news:428eb385{at}w3.nls.net...
  >>     I find it hard to believe you can be such an idiot and not know =
it.=20
  >> Read over your spin in this thread starting with your claims that=20
  >> everyone except the itunes store is a loser.  You are saying more =
than=20
  >> the obvious that apple's investment in their itunes store is a bet. =
 I=20
  >> can't believe you have the audacity to state in one sentence that =
you are=20
  >> voicing no opinion on the itunes store both after doing so and =
before=20
  >> doing so again.  You are spinning so fast you can't see.
  >>
  >>     As for your follow on bullshit, there is no lock in and never =
was.=20
  >> Unlike apple, Microsoft provides choice.  Go ahead, continue your=20
  >> dishonesty, and pretend you have none.  Make sure you mention how =
you=20
  >> have no choice everytime you mention your use any of the very large =
set=20
  >> of non-Microsoft hardware, software, and services Microsoft enables =
for=20
  >> Windows.
  >>
  >>  Rich
  >>
  >>    "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
  >> news:mg5t819ipve721e41u345o5l2ebiv5p3ev{at}4ax.com...
  >>    >   Keep spinning if that is what you need to live with =
yourself.
  >>
  >>    I live with myself just fine Rich.  I find no need to let =
computers
  >>    affect my living situation.  But I have to wonder why you are
  >>    projecting?
  >>
  >>
  >>    >   Do you really think the itunes store would sell the same if =
apple=20
  >> did not lock in ipod users so that this was the only store they can =
use?
  >>
  >>    I voice no opinion on the iTunes store.  I merely say that =
Apple's=20
  >> focus
  >>    is on iTunes and not necessarily iPod.   iPod is the means, =
iTunes is
  >>    the end.  And Microsoft is the also-ran, perhaps not even that.
  >>    Probably more of "too late to the party".
  >>
  >>    Whenever Microsoft feels the need to trot out Mr. Gates to =
expound=20
  >> upon
  >>    some "new direction", I know that Microsft has
found themelves =
behind
  >>    the market leader and have belatedly realized that they need to =
try to
  >>    catch up.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>    >> If users are not locked in, why would they pick the itunes =
store?
  >>
  >>    Coming from a Microsoft employee, that is a very interesting =
comment.
  >>
  >>    I mean, if the users were not locked into Windows, would they =
have
  >>    chosen IE over Netscape?  It seems that Microsoft execs' emails=20
  >> entered
  >>    as evidence in the anti-trist trials have stated that Microsoft =
needed
  >>    to leverage the Windows monopoly in order to make IE the defacto =

  >> browser
  >>    "of choice".
  >>
  >>    If the users were not locked in, would they choose WIndows Media =
in=20
  >> the
  >>    percentages that they currently do?
  >>
  >>     /m
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>    On Fri, 20 May 2005 18:56:30 -0700, "Rich"  wrote:
  >>
  >>    >   Keep spinning if that is what you need to live with =
yourself.
  >>    >
  >>    >   Do you really think the itunes store would sell the same if =
apple=20
  >> did not lock in ipod users so that this was the only store they can =
use?
  >>    >
  >>    >   If users are not locked in, why would they pick the itunes =
store?
  >>    >
  >>    >Rich
  >>    >
  >>    >  "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
  >> news:s93t81dqsvf1bvef5vjpukf6n5ukvof7dp{at}4ax.com...
  >>    >
  >>    >  It must really suck for your employer to be the loser in the =
online
  >>    >  music race, eh Rich?
  >>    >
  >>    >  Despite what you are trying to spin me as saying, I am =
actually=20
  >> saying
  >>    >  that Apple is betting on iTunes (an/or its video successor), =
not=20
  >> iPod.
  >>    >  I say no more or no less.  Despite what you try to spin.
  >>    >
  >>    >  Give those rotator cuffs a rest for a change, will ya?
  >>    >
  >>    >   /m
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    >
  >>    >  On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:15:01 -0700, "Rich"
 wrote:
  >>    >
  >>    >  >   If you weren't blinded by your agenda, mike, you could =
see the=20
  >> obvious and how silly you sound.
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >   Why will phones win out, for the same reason phones are =
winning=20
  >> over many PDA users?  Why carry two devices when you can carry one?
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >   Apple will follow Microsoft and I believe real
in getting =
their=20
  >> software onto phones.  There is a difference from the ipod.  Unless =
apple=20
  >> restricts their OEM licensees from offering their users multiple =
choices,=20
  >> the phone manufacturers and carriers have no reason to lock in =
their=20
  >> customers to the itunes store like apple does.
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >Rich
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >  "Mike '/m'" 
wrote in message=20
  >> news:55ns81lbitvndvtrbj4407ueh8f7cbm5bo{at}4ax.com...
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >  It's not iPod that Apple is betting on, but iTunes (and =
its=20
  >> video
  >>    >  >  follow-up).  Apple is already putting iPod software on =
cell=20
  >> phones to
  >>    >  >  allow them to access iTunes.
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >  Gates' comment was more of a specious smokescreen than =
anything=20
  >> else.
  >>    >  >  Apple caught him napping in this space, and now he has to =
look=20
  >> like he
  >>    >  >  was out in front all along.
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >   /m
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >  On Fri, 20 May 2005 14:01:23 +0100, Adam=20
  >> 
  >>    >  >  wrote:
  >>    >  >
  >>    >  >  >Randy wrote:
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >> I just 1 GB on my phone via miniSD-and I
want MORE....
  >>    >  >  >>
  >>    >  >  >> 500+ of AAC-encoded songs-sweet!
  >>    >  >  >>
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >Ditto. I agree with Gates that the Ipod won't
last & that =
the=20
  >> phones
  >>    >  >  >will eat it's lunch. I have a nokia 6230
which I got coz =
it has=20
  >> an MP3
  >>    >  >  >player & an fm radio....
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >A mondo bizarro bit is that if you are
listening to the =
radio=20
  >> or the mp3
  >>    >  >  >player & someone calls you get the
selected ringing =
tones....so=20
  >> if like
  >>    >  >  >me you often set your phone to silent for
meetings etc & =
then=20
  >> "forget"
  >>    >  >  >to re-enable the ringer....then you are left
wondering =
what's=20
  >> going on
  >>    >  >  >coz the music/radio just suddenly goes....silent....
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >I had a look at the smart phones (Pocket pc,
symbian etc) =
& was=20
  >> very
  >>    >  >  >impressed but {at} the end of the day...I just
wanted music =
+=20
  >> radio & a
  >>    >  >  >nice neat (small) phone.
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >I like the way most of them now try wifi
first for any =
net=20
  >> related things.
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >I reckon we're 2-3 years out from most people's =
"personal"=20
  >> computer
  >>    >  >  >being the smartphone in their pocket.
  >>    >  >  >
  >>    >  >  >Adam
  >=20


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   You
should expect to be =
able to defend=20
whatever nonsense you post.  If you post nonsense should you not =
expect to=20
be called on it?  Should you not expect to defend it if =
questioned? =20
Maybe you and mike miller believe that you are above being = challenged. =20
mike miller we all know has an agenda.  Look at just this thread
to = see how=20
when questioned he either changes the topic or declares that he has = nothing more=20
to say never actually defending any of his claims.
 
Rich
 

  "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:4290b4e2$1{at}w3.nls.net...In=20
  our little corner of the world, Shupak acts like a kid with a new =
chain=20
  saw: everything is game for cutting down.As for his =
behavior here,=20
  here's a thought: I don't belive that MSFT offers training on =
being a=20
  boorish duplicitous asshole-they activiely seek it out and reward=20
  it.Have a look at http://www.micros" target="new">http://www.micros=">http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/buscond/">http://www.micros=
oft.com/mscorp/legal/buscond/=20
  and do a search for where the word "honest"
appears.Then I =
saw=20
  this:"You may also call the Business Conduct Line at =
1-877-320-MSFT=20
  (6738). If you are calling from outside the United States, you may =
make a=20
  collect call to the Business Conduct Line by accessing an =
international=20
  operator and asking to place a collect call to 1-704-540-0139. The =

  Business Conduct Line is a dedicated, toll-free phone line that is =

  available to you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. =
It is=20
  operated by an external third-party vendor that has trained =
professionals=20
  to take your calls, in confidence, and report your concerns to the =

  Microsoft Director of Compliance for appropriate action. Your =
phone calls=20
  to the Business Conduct Line may be made anonymously. =
"'nuff=20
  said?"Mike '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message news:fb0191li9sk=
dil3l444686d38bgr5un24f{at}4ax.com...>>=20
  I think Joe Barr was just the first to see through Rich =
Shupak's>=20
  diversionary tactics [among other thigns] in online=20
  discussions.>> What I wonder is if
Microsoft's online =
persona go=20
  through some manner of> training, because many of them seem to =
use the=20
  same tactics over and>
over.>> =20
 
/m<shrug>>>>
On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:18:26 =
-0500,=20
  "Randy" <{at}>
wrote:>>>Who whould have thought =
that Joe=20
  Barr is right.>>  "Rich"
<{at}> wrote in message news:428eb385{at}w3.nls.net...>=
>    =20
  I find it hard to believe you can be such an idiot and not know it.=20
  >> Read over your spin in this thread starting with your =
claims that=20
  >> everyone except the itunes store is a
loser.  You =
are saying=20
  more than >> the obvious that apple's investment in their =
itunes=20
  store is a bet.  I >> can't believe you have the =
audacity to=20
  state in one sentence that you are >> voicing no
opinion on =
the=20
  itunes store both after doing so and before >> doing so =
again. =20
  You are spinning so fast you can't=20
 
see.>>>>    
As for your =
follow on=20
  bullshit, there is no lock in and never was. >> Unlike =
apple,=20
  Microsoft provides choice.  Go ahead, continue your
>>=20
  dishonesty, and pretend you have none.  Make sure you mention how =
you=20
  >> have no choice everytime you mention your use
any of the =
very=20
  large set >> of non-Microsoft hardware, software, and =
services=20
  Microsoft enables for >> =
Windows.>>>> =20
 
Rich>>>>   
"Mike '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
  >> news:mg5t819ipve=
721e41u345o5l2ebiv5p3ev{at}4ax.com...>>   =20
  >   Keep spinning if that is what you need to live with=20
 
yourself.>>>>   
I live with myself =
just=20
  fine Rich.  I find no need to let =
computers>>   =20
  affect my living situation.  But I have to wonder why you=20
  are>>   =20
 
projecting?>>>>>>   =20
  >   Do you really think the itunes store would sell the =
same if=20
  apple >> did not lock in ipod users so that this was the =
only store=20
  they can
use?>>>>   
I voice no =
opinion on=20
  the iTunes store.  I merely say that Apple's >>=20
  focus>>    is on
iTunes and not necessarily=20
  iPod.   iPod is the means, iTunes =
is>>   =20
  the end.  And Microsoft is the also-ran, perhaps not even=20
  that.>>    Probably
more of "too late to the=20
 
party".>>>>   
Whenever Microsoft =
feels the=20
  need to trot out Mr. Gates to expound >>=20
  upon>>    some
"new direction", I know that =
Microsft=20
  has found themelves
behind>>    the market =
leader and=20
  have belatedly realized that they need to try =
to>>   =20
  catch =
up.>>>>>>>>   =20
  >> If users are not locked in, why would they pick the itunes=20
 
store?>>>>   
Coming from a =
Microsoft=20
  employee, that is a very interesting=20
 
comment.>>>>   
I mean, if the =
users were=20
  not locked into Windows, would they
have>>    =
chosen=20
  IE over Netscape?  It seems that Microsoft execs' emails =
>>=20
  entered>>    as
evidence in the anti-trist =
trials=20
  have stated that Microsoft
needed>>    to =
leverage=20
  the Windows monopoly in order to make IE the defacto >>=20
  browser>>    "of=20
 
choice".>>>>   
If the users were =
not=20
  locked in, would they choose WIndows Media in >>=20
  the>>    percentages
that they currently=20
 
do?>>>>    
/m<probably=20
  =
not...>>>>>>>>>  &nb=
sp;=20
  On Fri, 20 May 2005 18:56:30 -0700, "Rich" <{at}>=20
 
wrote:>>>>   
>   Keep =

  spinning if that is what you need to live with=20
  yourself.>>    =
>>>   =20
  >   Do you really think the itunes store would sell the =
same if=20
  apple >> did not lock in ipod users so that this was the =
only store=20
  they can use?>>    =
>>>   =20
  >   If users are not locked in, why would they pick the =
itunes=20
  store?>>    =
>>>   =20
  >Rich>>    =
>>>   =20
  >  "Mike '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
  >> news:s93t81dqsvf=
1bvef5vjpukf6n5ukvof7dp{at}4ax.com...>>   =20
  >>>   
>  It must really suck for =
your=20
  employer to be the loser in the
online>>   =20
  >  music race, eh
Rich?>>   =20
  >>>   
>  Despite what you are =
trying to=20
  spin me as saying, I am actually >>=20
  saying>>   
>  that Apple is betting =
on=20
  iTunes (an/or its video successor), not >>=20
  iPod.>>   
>  I say no more or no =
less. =20
  Despite what you try to
spin.>>   =20
  >>>   
>  Give those rotator cuffs =
a rest=20
  for a change, will ya?>>   =20
  >>>   
>  =20
  /m>>   
>>>   =20
  >>>   
>>>   =20
  >>>   
>>>   =20
  >  On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:15:01 -0700, "Rich"
<{at}>=20
  wrote:>>    =
>>>   =20
  >  >   If you weren't blinded by
your agenda, =
mike, you=20
  could see the >> obvious and how silly you=20
  sound.>>   
> =20
  >>>   
>  >   Why =
will phones=20
  win out, for the same reason phones are winning
>> over many =
PDA=20
  users?  Why carry two devices when you can carry=20
  one?>>    > =20
  >>>   
>  >   Apple =
will=20
  follow Microsoft and I believe real in getting their >> =
software=20
  onto phones.  There is a difference from the ipod.  Unless =
apple=20
  >> restricts their OEM licensees from offering
their users =
multiple=20
  choices, >> the phone manufacturers and carriers have no =
reason to=20
  lock in their >> customers to the itunes store
like apple=20
  does.>>    > =20
  >>>   
> =20
  >Rich>>   
> =20
  >>>   
>  >  "Mike '/m'" =
<mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
  >> news:55ns81lbitv=
ndvtrbj4407ueh8f7cbm5bo{at}4ax.com...>>   =20
  > 
>>>   
>  >  =
It's not=20
  iPod that Apple is betting on, but iTunes (and its >>=20
  video>>   
>  >  =
follow-up). =20
  Apple is already putting iPod software on cell >> phones=20
  to>>   
>  >  allow them to =
access=20
  iTunes.>>   
> =20
  >>>   
>  >  Gates' =
comment was=20
  more of a specious smokescreen than anything >>=20
  else.>>   
>  >  Apple caught =
him=20
  napping in this space, and now he has to look >> like=20
  he>>   
>  >  was out in =
front all=20
  along.>>   
> =20
  >>>   
>  >  =20
  /m>>    >  =
>>>   =20
  > 
>>>   
>  >  On =
Fri, 20=20
  May 2005 14:01:23 +0100, Adam >> <mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moesmailto:mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes">mmmmm_beer_mmmm_donuts{at}moes
A>>>>   =20
  >  > 
wrote:>>   
> =20
  >>>   
>  >  >Randy=20
  wrote:>>   
>  > =20
  >>>   
>  >  >> I =
just 1 GB=20
  on my phone via miniSD-and I want =
MORE....>>   =20
  >  > 
>>>>    =
> =20
  >  >> 500+ of AAC-encoded=20
  songs-sweet!>>   
>  > =20
  >>>>   
>  > =20
  >>>   
>  >  >Ditto. I =
agree=20
  with Gates that the Ipod won't last & that the
>>=20
  phones>>   
>  >  >will =
eat it's=20
  lunch. I have a nokia 6230 which I got coz it has >> an=20
  MP3>>   
>  >  >player =
& an fm=20
  radio....>>   
>  > =20
  >>>   
>  >  >A mondo =
bizarro=20
  bit is that if you are listening to the radio >> or the=20
  mp3>>   
>  >  >player =
&=20
  someone calls you get the selected ringing tones....so
>> if =

  like>>   
>  >  >me you =
often set=20
  your phone to silent for meetings etc & then >>=20
 
"forget">>   
>  >  >to =
re-enable=20
  the ringer....then you are left wondering what's
>> going=20
  on>>   
>  >  >coz the =
music/radio=20
  just suddenly
goes....silent....>>   
=
> =20
  > 
>>>   
>  > =20
 
><G>>>   
>  > =20
  >>>   
>  >  >I had a =
look at=20
  the smart phones (Pocket pc, symbian etc) & was
>>=20
  very>>   
>  >  >impressed =
but {at}=20
  the end of the day...I just wanted music + >>
radio &=20
  a>>   
>  >  >nice neat =
(small)=20
  phone.>>   
>  > =20
  >>>   
>  >  >I like =
the way=20
  most of them now try wifi first for any net >> related=20
  things.>>   
>  > =20
  >>>   
>  >  >I reckon =
we're=20
  2-3 years out from most people's "personal" >>=20
  computer>>   
>  >  >being =
the=20
  smartphone in their
pocket.>>   
> =20
  > 
>>>   
>  > =20
  >Adam>


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