TIP: Click on subject to list as thread! ANSI
echo: educator
to: MICHAEL MARTINEZ
from: RON MCDERMOTT
date: 1996-08-03 22:55:00
subject: IVAN ILLICH

 MM>If you didn't go to school, you'd be surviving by doing something
 MM>else, I guarantee you that.
 RM> Yep, the government seems perfectly willing to ensure that
 RM> I wouldn't starve, and I guess I could live in a tent or
 RM> something, maybe beg... This is beginning to sound a bit
 RM> like the early Christians - You know, consider the Lillies
 RM> of the field who neither toil.... and yet GOD provides for
 RM> them....
MM>That's the only other option you can think of, government welfare?
Who are you to certify that what I choose to do is RIGHT?
That's unfair....
MM>What about working as a mechanic,
I'd probably have to go to school; that'd be unfair.  I'd
also have to buy tools; not the tools I want, but those the
car manufacturers demand - THAT'S unfair!
MM>a driver,
I guess this'd be easy, especially with no traffic laws,
licenses, etc required....
MM>cleaning houses,
I don't know... Wouldn't someone be telling me what to do,
when to do it?  I don't think it's fair to have to conform
to the wishes of others, do you?
MM>painting,
I don't WANT to do this...
MM>trading in the black market,
Too racist....
MM>being a chef or a cook,  ... ?
I know enough to last about 4 days... Also, following a
recipe is too restricting... I want to put whatever I want
into the food - I presume that in this utopian society I
don't have to conform to laws against criminally-negligent
homicide?
 RM> We are NOT the only species which has a language; whales and 
 RM> dolphins come immediately to mind as having one.  Honeybees
 RM> have a limited, but quite effective "language" which conveys
 RM> the concept of distance and heading to a food source.  Etc.
MM>Those aren't languages, those are the infexible uses of animal
MM>symbols.  To learn about language, I recommend reading Noam
MM>Chomsky, _Reflections on Language_.
I recommend you do less reading and a little more thinking
on your own... By what definition do you claim these not to
be "language"?  Inflexible in what way?  "Animal symbols"?
What the heck do you consider what WE do?  This is just
becoming an exercise in silliness.....
___
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