From: "Rich" 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0174_01C56EA6.6C6B3940
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   Interesting but a side topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at =
spin, I commented on where people go.  I fully expect him to continue to =
make insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of the =
people about which he is making claims.

   As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away with =
only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted.  = Google
is close.  Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are within
walking distance.

Rich

  "Randy"  wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...
  That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work =
environment?

  While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, too-they =
don't=20
  feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they aren't =
being=20
  challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they don't like =
the=20
  direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play the =
corporate=20
  political game, they may have problems with their immediate manager; =
they=20
  may have issues totally unrelated to the work....

  What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software engineering =
is not=20
  the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
  real- threat of offshoring.

  All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I have =
a SE=20
  making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and result =
out=20
  of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?

  There are now reports coming out of India where call-center personnel =
are=20
  leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
  business with companies that have outsourced to India.

  There are a lot of dynamics at play here.



  "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
  news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...
  >
  > Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
  >
  > I agree though that they were looking for change.  The Microsoft =
people
  > who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant =
company
  > whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing company =
that's
  > just beginning.
  >
  >  /m
  >
  >
  > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich"  wrote:
  >
  >>   Interest in google is easy to explain.  For people looking for a =
change=20
  >> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few high =
tech=20
  >> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
  >> well as Microsoft does.  In the past people have might have gone to =

  >> amazon or real or other local outfits.  During the boom many went =
to=20
  >> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of startups =
isn't as=20
  >> popular.
  >>
  >>Rich
  >>
  >>  "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
  >> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...
  >>
  >>
  >>  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring of =
late,
  >>  and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent.  Well I =
guess
  >>  that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect to be =
paid by
  >>  the stock market.
  >>
  >>    /m
  >=20


------=_NextPart_000_0174_01C56EA6.6C6B3940
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable








  
Interesting but a =
side=20
topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented on =
where people=20
go.  I fully expect him to continue to make insinuations regarding = why=20
people go without him knowing any of the people about which he is making =

claims.
 
   As for
where to go, =
someone is more=20
likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute than 1000 miles = away and=20
being uprooted.  Google is close.  Some of my friends and
I = joke about=20
it because they are within walking distance.
 
Rich
 

  "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...Th=
at=20
  could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
  environment?While money may be a big part of it, there are =
other=20
  reasons, too-they don't feel their skills are being utilized to =
their=20
  fullest, they aren't being challenged, they feel they are not =
being=20
  listened to, they don't like the direction the company is being =
taken,=20
  they don't want to play the corporate political game, they may =
have=20
  problems with their immediate manager; they may have issues =
totally=20
  unrelated to the work....What I think you are seeing is the =
fact that=20
  now software engineering is not the glamour job it used to be, =
thanks in=20
  no small part to the perceived -or real- threat of =
offshoring.All=20
  other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I have a =
SE=20
  making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
  of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you
do?There are now =
reports=20
  coming out of India where call-center personnel are leaving in =
high=20
  numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers transacting business =
with=20
  companies that have outsourced to India.There are a lot of =
dynamics at=20
  play here."Mike '/m'"
<mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...>>=20
  Soounds more like rationalization than
explanation.>> I =
agree=20
  though that they were looking for change.  The Microsoft =
people>=20
  who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant =
company>=20
  whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing company =
that's>=20
  just beginning.>> 
/m>>> On =
Fri, 10=20
  Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" <{at}>=20
  wrote:>>>  
Interest in google is easy to=20
  explain.  For people looking for a change
>> but do not =
want to=20
  uproot themselves and move there are few high tech >> =
businesses in=20
  the area particularly those that treat there employees as
>> =
well as=20
  Microsoft does.  In the past people have might have gone to =
>>=20
  amazon or real or other local outfits.  During the boom many went =
to=20
  >> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups=20
  isn't as >>=20
 
popular.>>>>Rich>>>> 
=
"Mike '/m'"=20
  <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote =
in message=20
  >> news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...>>>>>>=
; =20
  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring of=20
  late,>>  and Google becoming the destination for =
Microsoft=20
  talent.  Well I guess>>  that
happens when you've =
trained=20
  your workforce to expect to be paid
by>>  the stock=20
 
market.>>>>   
/m>=20


------=_NextPart_000_0174_01C56EA6.6C6B3940--

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5