From: "Rich" 

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   People have been coming and going from everywhere I worked for as =
long as I have been working.  Unless you are spinning like mike miller I =
expect you would suggest that everyone is different and makes their own =
choices for their own reasons.  Maybe mike miller is projecting his own =
motivations onto others.

Rich

  "Randy"  wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  In my corner of the world we routinely 'horse-traded' amongst several =
different business-specific IT organizations-with consolidation occuring =
in the industry those opportunities became fewer and fewer as surviving =
entities relocated the work out of the area. =20

  Yes, you did comment on where people went--but not WHY they left.=20


  "Rich"  wrote in message news:42ab791f{at}w3.nls.net...
       Interesting but a side topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at =
spin, I commented on where people go.  I fully expect him to continue to =
make insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of the =
people about which he is making claims.

       As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away =
with only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted.  =
Google is close.  Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are
within walking distance.

    Rich

      "Randy"  wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...
      That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work =
environment?

      While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, =
too-they don't=20
      feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they aren't =
being=20
      challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they don't =
like the=20
      direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play the =
corporate=20
      political game, they may have problems with their immediate =
manager; they=20
      may have issues totally unrelated to the work....

      What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software =
engineering is not=20
      the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
      real- threat of offshoring.

      All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I =
have a SE=20
      making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
      of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?

      There are now reports coming out of India where call-center =
personnel are=20
      leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
      business with companies that have outsourced to India.

      There are a lot of dynamics at play here.



      "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
      news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...
      >
      > Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
      >
      > I agree though that they were looking for change.  The Microsoft =
people
      > who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant =
company
      > whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing company =
that's
      > just beginning.
      >
      >  /m
      >
      >
      > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich"  wrote:
      >
      >>   Interest in google is easy to explain.  For people looking =
for a change=20
      >> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few =
high tech=20
      >> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
      >> well as Microsoft does.  In the past people have might have =
gone to=20
      >> amazon or real or other local outfits.  During the boom many =
went to=20
      >> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of startups =
isn't as=20
      >> popular.
      >>
      >>Rich
      >>
      >>  "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
      >> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...
      >>
      >>
      >>  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of late,
      >>  and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent.  =
Well I guess
      >>  that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect to =
be paid by
      >>  the stock market.
      >>
      >>    /m
      >=20


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   People
have been coming =
and going from=20
everywhere I worked for as long as I have been working.  Unless you = are=20
spinning like mike miller I expect you would suggest that everyone = is=20
different and makes their own choices for their own
reasons.  = Maybe=20
mike miller is projecting his own motivations onto others.
 
Rich
 

  "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  In my corner of the world we routinely =
'horse-traded'=20
  amongst several different business-specific IT organizations-with =

  consolidation occuring in the industry those opportunities became =
fewer and=20
  fewer as surviving entities relocated the work out of the area. =20
  
   
  Yes, you did comment on where people went--but =
not WHY=20
  they left. 
   
   
  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab791f{at}w3.nls.net...
  

      
Interesting but a =
side=20
    topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented on =
where=20
    people go.  I fully expect him to continue to make insinuations =

    regarding why people go without him knowing any of the people about =
which he=20
    is making claims.
     
       As
for where to go, =
someone is=20
    more likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute than =
1000 miles=20
    away and being uprooted.  Google is close.  Some of my =
friends and=20
    I joke about it because they are within walking =
distance.
     
    Rich
     
    
      "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...Th=
at=20
      could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
      environment?While money may be a big part of it,
there are =
other=20
      reasons, too-they don't feel their skills are being utilized =
to their=20
      fullest, they aren't being challenged, they feel they are not =
being=20
      listened to, they don't like the direction the company is =
being taken,=20
      they don't want to play the corporate political game, they may =
have=20
      problems with their immediate manager; they may have issues =
totally=20
      unrelated to the work....What I think you are seeing is =
the fact=20
      that now software engineering is not the glamour job it used =
to be,=20
      thanks in no small part to the perceived -or real- threat of=20
      offshoring.All other things being equal (both
tangible and =

      intangible), if I have a SE making $120K here in the US, and I =
get the=20
      same performance and result out of an Indian SE for $45K, what =
do you=20
      do?There are now reports coming out of India where =
call-center=20
      personnel are leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and =
UK=20
      customers transacting business with companies that have =
outsourced to=20
      India.There are a lot of dynamics at play=20
      here."Mike '/m'"
<mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
      news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...>>=20
      Soounds more like rationalization than =
explanation.>> I=20
      agree though that they were looking for change.  The =
Microsoft=20
      people> who went to Google were looking for a change, from =
a=20
      stagnant company> whose best years have passed by; to a =
vibrant,=20
      growing company that's> just =
beginning.>> =20
      /m>>> On Fri, 10
Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, =
"Rich"=20
      <{at}>
wrote:>>>  
Interest in =
google is=20
      easy to explain.  For people looking for a change =
>> but do=20
      not want to uproot themselves and move there are few high tech=20
      >> businesses in the area particularly those
that treat =
there=20
      employees as >> well as Microsoft
does.  In the =
past people=20
      have might have gone to >> amazon or real or
other local =

      outfits.  During the boom many went to
>> startups =
but you=20
      see less of that now that the idea of startups isn't as =
>>=20
     
popular.>>>>Rich>>>> 
=
"Mike=20
      '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote=20
      in message >> news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...>>>>>>=
; =20
      Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring of =

      late,>>  and Google becoming the
destination for =
Microsoft=20
      talent.  Well I guess>> 
that happens when =
you've=20
      trained your workforce to expect to be paid
by>>  =
the stock=20
     
market.>>>>   
/m>=20
   


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