From: "Randy" 

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Indeed-everyone is different and makes their own choices-however, =
sometimes patterns do emerge that could suggest there may (or may not) = be
an organizational problem-like an entire group leaving, for example. = I
don't see that in reading this blog entry, however.=20
=20
  "Rich"  wrote in message news:42ab9bef{at}w3.nls.net...
     People have been coming and going from everywhere I worked for as =
long as I have been working.  Unless you are spinning like mike miller I =
expect you would suggest that everyone is different and makes their own =
choices for their own reasons.  Maybe mike miller is projecting his own =
motivations onto others.

  Rich

    "Randy"  wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
    In my corner of the world we routinely 'horse-traded' amongst =
several different business-specific IT organizations-with consolidation =
occuring in the industry those opportunities became fewer and fewer as =
surviving entities relocated the work out of the area. =20

    Yes, you did comment on where people went--but not WHY they left.=20


    "Rich"  wrote in message news:42ab791f{at}w3.nls.net...
         Interesting but a side topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts =
at spin, I commented on where people go.  I fully expect him to continue =
to make insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of =
the people about which he is making claims.

         As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away =
with only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted.  =
Google is close.  Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are
within walking distance.

      Rich

        "Randy"  wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...
        That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work =
environment?

        While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, =
too-they don't=20
        feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they =
aren't being=20
        challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they don't =
like the=20
        direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play =
the corporate=20
        political game, they may have problems with their immediate =
manager; they=20
        may have issues totally unrelated to the work....

        What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software =
engineering is not=20
        the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
        real- threat of offshoring.

        All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), if =
I have a SE=20
        making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
        of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?

        There are now reports coming out of India where call-center =
personnel are=20
        leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
        business with companies that have outsourced to India.

        There are a lot of dynamics at play here.



        "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
        news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...
        >
        > Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
        >
        > I agree though that they were looking for change.  The =
Microsoft people
        > who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant =
company
        > whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing company =
that's
        > just beginning.
        >
        >  /m
        >
        >
        > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich"  wrote:
        >
        >>   Interest in google is easy to explain.  For people looking =
for a change=20
        >> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few =
high tech=20
        >> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
        >> well as Microsoft does.  In the past people have might have =
gone to=20
        >> amazon or real or other local outfits.  During the boom many =
went to=20
        >> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups isn't as=20
        >> popular.
        >>
        >>Rich
        >>
        >>  "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
        >> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...
        >>
        >>
        >>  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of late,
        >>  and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent.  =
Well I guess
        >>  that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect to =
be paid by
        >>  the stock market.
        >>
        >>    /m
        >=20


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Indeed-everyone is different and makes their own=20
choices-however, sometimes patterns do emerge that could suggest there = may (or=20
may not) be an organizational problem-like an entire group leaving, for=20
example. I don't see that in reading this blog entry, however.=20

 

  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab9bef{at}w3.nls.net...
     People
have been coming =
and going=20
  from everywhere I worked for as long as I have been working.  =
Unless you=20
  are spinning like mike miller I expect you would suggest that =
everyone is=20
  different and makes their own choices for their own =
reasons.  Maybe=20
  mike miller is projecting his own motivations onto =
others.
   
  Rich
   
  

    "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
    In my corner of the world we routinely =
'horse-traded'=20
    amongst several different business-specific IT =
organizations-with=20
    consolidation occuring in the industry those opportunities became =
fewer and=20
    fewer as surviving entities relocated the work out of the =
area. =20
    
     
    Yes, you did comment on where people went--but=20
    not WHY they left. 
     
     
    "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab791f{at}w3.nls.net...
    

         Interesting =
but a side=20
      topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented =
on where=20
      people go.  I fully expect him to continue to make =
insinuations=20
      regarding why people go without him knowing any of the people =
about which=20
      he is making claims.
       
         As
for where to go, =
someone is=20
      more likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute than =
1000=20
      miles away and being uprooted.  Google is close.  Some =
of my=20
      friends and I joke about it because they are within walking=20
      distance.
       
      Rich
       
      
        "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...Th=
at=20
        could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
        environment?While money may be a big part of it, there =
are other=20
        reasons, too-they don't feel their skills are being utilized =
to=20
        their fullest, they aren't being challenged, they feel they =
are not=20
        being listened to, they don't like the direction the company =
is=20
        being taken, they don't want to play the corporate political =
game,=20
        they may have problems with their immediate manager; they =
may have=20
        issues totally unrelated to the work....What I
think you =
are=20
        seeing is the fact that now software engineering is not the =
glamour=20
        job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the perceived -or=20
        real- threat of offshoring.All other
things being =
equal=20
        (both tangible and intangible), if I have a SE making $120K =
here in=20
        the US, and I get the same performance and result out of an =
Indian=20
        SE for $45K, what do you do?There are now
reports coming =
out of=20
        India where call-center personnel are leaving in high =
numbers, due=20
        to abuse of US and UK customers transacting business with =
companies=20
        that have outsourced to India.There are a lot of =
dynamics at=20
        play here."Mike
'/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote in =
message=20
        news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...>>=20
        Soounds more like rationalization than =
explanation.>> I=20
        agree though that they were looking for change.  The =
Microsoft=20
        people> who went to Google were looking for a change, =
from a=20
        stagnant company> whose best years have passed by; to a =
vibrant,=20
        growing company that's> just =
beginning.>> =20
        /m>>> On Fri, 10
Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, =
"Rich"=20
        <{at}>
wrote:>>>  
Interest in =
google is=20
        easy to explain.  For people looking for a change =
>> but=20
        do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few high =
tech=20
        >> businesses in the area particularly those that =
treat there=20
        employees as >> well as Microsoft
does.  In the =
past=20
        people have might have gone to >> amazon or real or =
other=20
        local outfits.  During the boom many went to
>> =
startups=20
        but you see less of that now that the idea of startups isn't as=20
        >>=20
        =
popular.>>>>Rich>>>> 
"Mike =

        '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote=20
        in message >> news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...>>>>>>=
; =20
        Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring =
of=20
        late,>>  and Google becoming the
destination for=20
        Microsoft talent.  Well I
guess>>  that =
happens when=20
        you've trained your workforce to expect to be paid =
by>> =20
        the stock
market.>>>>   
=
/m>=20
        =


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