Quotes are taken from a message written by Rick to Charles on 07/17/96...
RP>No point at all, Charles. At least none that you'll accept.
You'll never know if you don't try .
RP>RP>And BTW, Visual Basic outsells every other Windows programming 
anguage,
RP>RP>including C++ and Delphi. Moreover, since a subset of VB is embedded
RP>RP>in most MS Windows Office applications as a replacement for the old
RP>RP>system of "macros", every application user becomes a de facto 
rogrammer
RP>RP>to some degree, whenever he needs to extend an application beyond its
RP>RP>built-in, off-the-shelf capabilities. Lastly, take a look at some
RP>RP>source code from PowerBuilder, CA Visualizer, and a host of other
RP>RP>"database" languages sometime. It may not say "BASIC" on the box, but
RP>RP>the source sure looks like BASIC.
RP>
RP>CB> And you think there is some reason to teach all off this to
RP>CB> 11-year-old kids?
RP>
RP>Someone will, hopefully earlier than that, but it won't be you
RP>apparently.
That's correct.
RP>CB> No.  Do you tell your students that the only people who can use a
RP>CB> computer effectively are those who program?  If so, I think you do
RP>CB> *them* a disservice.
RP>
RP>Absolutely not. But don't sweat it, Charles. Others will pick up the
RP>torch where you have faltered. Just teach your kids to use a friolator;
RP>they can always get a McJob when they "graduate". I really don't
RP>understand your problem; it's like someone were demanding you teach
RP>quantum physics to 11-year olds. It's actually easier to learn than
RP>math for most kids.
I find it interesting that you choose to attack me personally ("you have 
faltered," "your problem,") rather than to offer evidence that teaching 
6th grade kids to program will result in more and better programmers as 
they become adults.  You offer nothing in the way of experience and 
nothing in the way of data to support your position.  As I've mentioned 
elsewhere, I taught LOGO to 6th graders for 5 or 6 years and felt that 
many of them were not yet ready for it, others simply had no interest.  
There were a few kids that I taught who fell right into it, but they 
were few enough in number that I do not think it warrants taking time 
from instruction in other basic skills associated with computers in the 
classroom.
I understand that programming is an important skill - that businesses 
need programmers - that new software is being written all of the time.  
I just don't think that we need to begin that training with children who 
can barely spread their fingers across a keyboard and who may never 
have to write a program in their lives.  There are lots of things we 
don't teach everyone in school - we don't even teach them all how to 
drive and almost EVERYONE does that, so in the course of picking and 
choosing what should be mandatory in school, programming is near the 
bottom of my list.  And that is a legitimate position to take whether it 
is in accordance with your list or not.
Chuck Beams
Fidonet - 1:2608/70
cbeams@future.dreamscape.com
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* UniQWK #5290* And God said: E = 2mv2 - Ze2/r, and there was light!
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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