From: "Randy" 

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In my corner of the world we routinely 'horse-traded' amongst several =
different business-specific IT organizations-with consolidation occuring =
in the industry those opportunities became fewer and fewer as surviving =
entities relocated the work out of the area. =20

Yes, you did comment on where people went--but not WHY they left.=20


"Rich"  wrote in message news:42ab791f{at}w3.nls.net...
     Interesting but a side topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at =
spin, I commented on where people go.  I fully expect him to continue to =
make insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of the =
people about which he is making claims.

     As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away with =
only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted.  = Google
is close.  Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are within
walking distance.

  Rich

    "Randy"  wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...
    That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work =
environment?

    While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, =
too-they don't=20
    feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they aren't =
being=20
    challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they don't =
like the=20
    direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play the =
corporate=20
    political game, they may have problems with their immediate manager; =
they=20
    may have issues totally unrelated to the work....

    What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software =
engineering is not=20
    the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
    real- threat of offshoring.

    All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I =
have a SE=20
    making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
    of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?

    There are now reports coming out of India where call-center =
personnel are=20
    leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
    business with companies that have outsourced to India.

    There are a lot of dynamics at play here.



    "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
    news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...
    >
    > Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
    >
    > I agree though that they were looking for change.  The Microsoft =
people
    > who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant =
company
    > whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing company =
that's
    > just beginning.
    >
    >  /m
    >
    >
    > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich"  wrote:
    >
    >>   Interest in google is easy to explain.  For people looking for =
a change=20
    >> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few high =
tech=20
    >> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
    >> well as Microsoft does.  In the past people have might have gone =
to=20
    >> amazon or real or other local outfits.  During the boom many went =
to=20
    >> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of startups =
isn't as=20
    >> popular.
    >>
    >>Rich
    >>
    >>  "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
    >> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring =
of late,
    >>  and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent.  Well =
I guess
    >>  that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect to be =
paid by
    >>  the stock market.
    >>
    >>    /m
    >=20


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In my corner of the world we routinely =
'horse-traded' amongst=20
several different business-specific IT organizations-with = consolidation=20
occuring in the industry those opportunities became fewer and fewer as = surviving=20
entities relocated the work out of the area.  
 
Yes, you did comment on where people went--but =
not WHY=20
they left. 
 
 
"Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab791f{at}w3.nls.net...

    
Interesting but a =
side=20
  topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented on =
where=20
  people go.  I fully expect him to continue to make insinuations =
regarding=20
  why people go without him knowing any of the people about which he is =
making=20
  claims.
   
     As for
where to go, =
someone is more=20
  likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute than 1000 =
miles away=20
  and being uprooted.  Google is close.  Some of my friends =
and I joke=20
  about it because they are within walking distance.
   
  Rich
   
  
    "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...Th=
at=20
    could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
    environment?While money may be a big part of it, there are =
other=20
    reasons, too-they don't feel their skills are being utilized to =
their=20
    fullest, they aren't being challenged, they feel they are not =
being=20
    listened to, they don't like the direction the company is being =
taken,=20
    they don't want to play the corporate political game, they may =
have=20
    problems with their immediate manager; they may have issues =
totally=20
    unrelated to the work....What I think you are seeing is the =
fact=20
    that now software engineering is not the glamour job it used to =
be,=20
    thanks in no small part to the perceived -or real- threat of=20
    offshoring.All other things being equal (both tangible and=20
    intangible), if I have a SE making $120K here in the US, and I =
get the=20
    same performance and result out of an Indian SE for $45K, what =
do you=20
    do?There are now reports coming out of India where =
call-center=20
    personnel are leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK =

    customers transacting business with companies that have =
outsourced to=20
    India.There are a lot of dynamics at play =
here."Mike=20
    '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
=
wrote in=20
    message news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...>>=20
    Soounds more like rationalization than
explanation.>> =
I agree=20
    though that they were looking for change.  The Microsoft =
people>=20
    who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant=20
    company> whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, =
growing=20
    company that's> just
beginning.>> =20
    /m>>> On Fri, 10 Jun
2005 23:18:21 -0700, =
"Rich"=20
    <{at}>
wrote:>>>  
Interest in google =
is easy=20
    to explain.  For people looking for a change
>> but =
do not=20
    want to uproot themselves and move there are few high tech =
>>=20
    businesses in the area particularly those that treat there employees =
as=20
    >> well as Microsoft does.  In the
past people have =
might=20
    have gone to >> amazon or real or other local =
outfits. =20
    During the boom many went to >> startups but
you see less =
of that=20
    now that the idea of startups isn't as >>=20
   
popular.>>>>Rich>>>> 
=
"Mike=20
    '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
=
wrote in=20
    message >> news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...>>>>>>=
; =20
    Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring of=20
    late,>>  and Google becoming the
destination for =
Microsoft=20
    talent.  Well I guess>>  that
happens when =
you've=20
    trained your workforce to expect to be paid
by>>  the =
stock=20
   
market.>>>>   
/m>=20
 


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