From: "Rich" 

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   Only in mike miller's spin.

Rich

  "Randy"  wrote in message news:42aba72d{at}w3.nls.net...
  Indeed-everyone is different and makes their own choices-however, =
sometimes patterns do emerge that could suggest there may (or may not) = be
an organizational problem-like an entire group leaving, for example. = I
don't see that in reading this blog entry, however.=20

    "Rich"  wrote in message news:42ab9bef{at}w3.nls.net...
       People have been coming and going from everywhere I worked for as =
long as I have been working.  Unless you are spinning like mike miller I =
expect you would suggest that everyone is different and makes their own =
choices for their own reasons.  Maybe mike miller is projecting his own =
motivations onto others.

    Rich

      "Randy"  wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
      In my corner of the world we routinely 'horse-traded' amongst =
several different business-specific IT organizations-with consolidation =
occuring in the industry those opportunities became fewer and fewer as =
surviving entities relocated the work out of the area. =20

      Yes, you did comment on where people went--but not WHY they left.=20


      "Rich"  wrote in message news:42ab791f{at}w3.nls.net...
           Interesting but a side topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts =
at spin, I commented on where people go.  I fully expect him to continue =
to make insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of =
the people about which he is making claims.

           As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away =
with only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted.  =
Google is close.  Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are
within walking distance.

        Rich

          "Randy"  wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...
          That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any =
work environment?

          While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, =
too-they don't=20
          feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they =
aren't being=20
          challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they =
don't like the=20
          direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play =
the corporate=20
          political game, they may have problems with their immediate =
manager; they=20
          may have issues totally unrelated to the work....

          What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software =
engineering is not=20
          the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
          real- threat of offshoring.

          All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), =
if I have a SE=20
          making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance =
and result out=20
          of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?

          There are now reports coming out of India where call-center =
personnel are=20
          leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
          business with companies that have outsourced to India.

          There are a lot of dynamics at play here.



          "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
          news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...
          >
          > Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
          >
          > I agree though that they were looking for change.  The =
Microsoft people
          > who went to Google were looking for a change, from a =
stagnant company
          > whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing =
company that's
          > just beginning.
          >
          >  /m
          >
          >
          > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich"  wrote:
          >
          >>   Interest in google is easy to explain.  For people =
looking for a change=20
          >> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few =
high tech=20
          >> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
          >> well as Microsoft does.  In the past people have might have =
gone to=20
          >> amazon or real or other local outfits.  During the boom =
many went to=20
          >> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups isn't as=20
          >> popular.
          >>
          >>Rich
          >>
          >>  "Mike '/m'"  wrote in message=20
          >> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...
          >>
          >>
          >>  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of late,
          >>  and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent.  =
Well I guess
          >>  that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect =
to be paid by
          >>  the stock market.
          >>
          >>    /m
          >=20


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   Only in
mike miller's=20
spin.
Rich
 

  "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42aba72d{at}w3.nls.net...
  Indeed-everyone is different and makes their own=20
  choices-however, sometimes patterns do emerge that could suggest there =
may (or=20
  may not) be an organizational problem-like an entire group leaving, =
for=20
  example. I don't see that in reading this blog entry, however.=20
  
   
  

    "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab9bef{at}w3.nls.net...
      
People have been =
coming and going=20
    from everywhere I worked for as long as I have been working.  =
Unless=20
    you are spinning like mike miller I expect you would suggest =
that=20
    everyone is different and makes their own choices for their own =

    reasons.  Maybe mike miller is projecting his own motivations =
onto=20
    others.
     
    Rich
     
    

      "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
      In my corner of the world we routinely =
'horse-traded'=20
      amongst several different business-specific IT =
organizations-with=20
      consolidation occuring in the industry those opportunities became =
fewer=20
      and fewer as surviving entities relocated the work out of the =
area. =20
      
       
      Yes, you did comment on where people
went--but =

      not WHY they left. 
       
       
      "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab791f{at}w3.nls.net...
      

          
Interesting =
but a side=20
        topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented =
on=20
        where people go.  I fully expect him to continue to make=20
        insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of =
the=20
        people about which he is making claims.
         
          
As for where to =
go, someone is=20
        more likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute =
than 1000=20
        miles away and being uprooted.  Google is close.  Some =
of my=20
        friends and I joke about it because they are within walking=20
        distance.
         
        Rich
         
        
          "Randy" <{at}> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa{at}w3.nls.net...Th=
at=20
          could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
          environment?While money may be a big part of
it, there =
are=20
          other reasons, too-they don't feel their skills are being =
utilized=20
          to their fullest, they aren't being challenged, they feel =
they are=20
          not being listened to, they don't like the direction the =
company=20
          is being taken, they don't want to play the corporate =
political=20
          game, they may have problems with their immediate manager; =
they=20
          may have issues totally unrelated to the =
work....What I=20
          think you are seeing is the fact that now software engineering =
is not=20
          the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to =
the=20
          perceived -or real- threat of
offshoring.All other =
things=20
          being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I have a SE =
making=20
          $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
          of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you
do?There are =
now=20
          reports coming out of India where call-center personnel are=20
          leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK =
customers=20
          transacting business with companies that have outsourced =
to=20
          India.There are a lot of dynamics at play=20
          here."Mike
'/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote =
in message=20
          news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n{at}4ax.com...>>=20
          Soounds more like rationalization than =
explanation.>> I=20
          agree though that they were looking for change.  The =
Microsoft=20
          people> who went to Google were looking for a change, =
from a=20
          stagnant company> whose best years have passed by; to a =

          vibrant, growing company that's> just=20
          beginning.>> 
/m>>> On =
Fri, 10=20
          Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" <{at}>=20
         
wrote:>>>  
Interest in google is =
easy to=20
          explain.  For people looking for a change
>> =
but do not=20
          want to uproot themselves and move there are few high tech=20
          >> businesses in the area particularly those that =
treat=20
          there employees as >> well as Microsoft
does.  =
In the=20
          past people have might have gone to >> amazon or =
real or=20
          other local outfits.  During the boom many went to =
>>=20
          startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups isn't=20
          as >>=20
          =
popular.>>>>Rich>>>> =20
          "Mike '/m'" <mike{at}barkto.com>">mailto:mike{at}barkto.com">mike{at}barkto.com>
wrote =
in message=20
          >> news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4{at}4ax.com...>>>>>>=
; =20
          Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of=20
          late,>>  and Google becoming the
destination =
for=20
          Microsoft talent.  Well I
guess>>  that =
happens=20
          when you've trained your workforce to expect to be paid=20
          by>>  the stock=20
         
market.>>>>   
/m>=20
        =
=


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