"James A. Robbins"  wrote:
> "Doug Freyburger"  wrote:
>
> >The concept also applies to FTL travel - Science is about
> >what's possible; technology is about implementing the
> >possible. =A0Higher technology doesn't much matter if your
> >science is at the stone age level. =A0You may be able to
> >make amazing stuff with stone age knowledge but none
> >of it will ever be an airplane. =A0This means that saying FTL
> >still won't exist in a million years equals saying science
> >will not advance like that in a million years. =A0Recall the
> >quotes from patent bureau folks a century ago that all
> >that can be invented had been ...
>
> Not to take anything away from what Doug has said, still I
> think it needs to be pointed out that Science doesn't
> discover new truth based on wishful thinking.

Correct.  Science posits that ultimate reality is
ultimately real and then suggests a method of
incremental step-wise improvement in out knowledge
of specific aspects of ultimate reality.  If ultimate
reality really forbids X then no amount of science
will ever acheive X.

> Much of
> Science Fiction is based on wishful thinking.

With no way of telling what the limits of ultimate
reality are.  Check.  There are mature sciences that
we do know won't advance much.  Quantum
mechanisms did little to effect geological minerology
but had lots of effect on material science custom
crystal manufacture.

But no one can know what discoveries of new stuff
can happen.  I'm sure there's plenty of phenomena
in the universe that can be systematized that people
have just plain not noticed yet.  Again the history of
the patent office officials a century ago applies.

> If FTL
> cannot exist in our universe then no amount of speculation,
> wishful thinking or magic thinking will make it real.

And the fact that Stephen Hawkings is working on
it doesn't matter.  Again check.

> We
> very well could reach the million year make without gravity
> control, forcefields or FTL drives.

We could.

> I don't want to be a wet blanket but I can accept a vision of
> the world a million years hence where the only way to move
> between stars would be in generational ships. =A0I may not
> like it, but it may be the way things have to be.

If we assume travel at 0.1 C for colony ships, a colonization
radius well under 100 LYR and about 500 years before
colonies begin launching another phase, it takes on the
order of several million years to colonize the entire galaxy
and who knows how many of those 0.1 C ships are targetted
at other galaxies and survive their trips.  Very convenient
indeed that JMS didn't pick "several million years" as his
time frame.
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